agitprop — Paine

I don't engage with ridiculous nonsense. Sorry mate :)

You have done your part, no need to apologize.

Genuine question, not loaded with anything more than exactly what it asks: Should I expect that this, lets say orthogonal mode of interaction from you generally? Would like to know how to approach you efficiently.

You recited a well-established talking point. I am just a person noticing the repetition.

I like the pre-loaded ad hominem of your question. Yes, I am beating my wife.

This is probably the single occasion i have seen on this forum on which a very curt "piss off" is 100% justified. So, there we go.

On whose part?

You can find some fellow travelers here.

I shall not be taking you seriously going forward. :)

This appears to be an unsympathetic source trying to be balanced. — AmadeusD

How is this an unsympathetic source?

The Author is Marc Thiessen, a conservative pundit and, among other things, apologist for torture.

Isn't it the false promises of neoliberal capitalists on the right side of politics who promised these people the garden of eden; only to flush it with factory chemicals, doubt, fear and rage? — Christoffer

Well yes it is. I'm not going to disagree with the story, but I am disagreeing with the moral of the story.

The great and the good are responsible for the man in the street, and they are responsible for the man in the street's education. A society that produces a mass of people who can be led astray by false promises of a few bad men has FAILED. This is the bottom line of a democracy, that it has to produce people that value democracy otherwise it will become an autocracy.

So it behooves "decent Americans" to look to their own failings and the failings of the whole society, because their stewardship has led to neoliberal capitalists and deplorables and Trump.

Latest polls on the general election:

Biden 44% Trump 43% (yougove, 10th Jan)
Biden 41% Trump 43% (morning consult, 14th Jan)
Biden 37% Trump 45% (The Atlanta Journal)

I think Biden was way ahead in the polls prior to the last elections, wasn't he?

I'm trying to imagine what it will be like if Trump is a convicted felon and wins the election. What will that even be like? What if he has a prison sentence? Will that just be hand-waved away when he gets sworn in as POTUS again?

I actually think Trump is running for POTUS again to get out of his legal troubles... And also to heal his ego from losing to Biden. Simply by running for POTUS he can play the "They're weaponizing the DoJ against a political opponent" card, and people eat it up. And if he wins, I'm betting he thinks he can make all of these legal troubles go away by surrounding himself with cronies who do whatever he wants.

Trump is a convicted felon and wins the election — GRWelsh

This will send the hard-leftists into a tail-spin. Felonies are racist.

What does "felonies are racist" mean in the context of Trump winning the 2024 election?

It's pure sarcasm.

I don't get it. Is this Kiwi humour?

Not at all. Kiwi's don't have humour. I'm Irish.

Although there's a chance he'll be tried this year, there's very little chance the appeals will be completed. So I looked up the law on incarceration for Federal Crimes when there is an appeal pending. It appears to me that he'd be incarcerated after a guilty verdict is reached, as long as the prosecution actually seeks incarceration. So he could potentially take the oath of office from prison, and then his first official act would be to pardon himself. Still, it remains to be seen when any of the trials will actually start.

This appears to be the relevant law: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/3143 :

... the judicial officer shall order that a person who has been found guilty of an offense and sentenced to a term of imprisonment, and who has filed an appeal or a petition for a writ of certiorari, be detained, unless the judicial officer finds—
(A) by clear and convincing evidence that the person is not likely to flee or pose a danger to the safety of any other person or the community if released under section 3142(b) or (c) of this title; and
(B) that the appeal is not for the purpose of delay and raises a substantial question of law or fact likely to result in—
(i) reversal,
(ii) an order for a new trial,
(iii) a sentence that does not include a term of imprisonment, or
(iv) a reduced sentence to a term of imprisonment less than the total of the time already served plus the expected duration of the appeal process.
If the judicial officer makes such findings, such judicial officer shall order the release of the person in accordance with section 3142(b) or (c) of this title, except that in the circumstance described in subparagraph (B)(iv) of this paragraph, the judicial officer shall order the detention terminated at the expiration of the likely reduced sentence.

I'm trying to imagine what it will be like if Trump is a convicted felon and wins the election. What will that even be like? What if he has a prison sentence? Will that just be hand-waved away when he gets sworn in as POTUS again? — GRWelsh

I've been asking that question here too. Imagine the nominating convention in Milwaukee in July, if Trump has been convicted over the January 6th charges. Readers may recall there was a rebellion at the 2016 convention by the Stop Trump contingent. It failed at the time, but what will happen this time? What would it mean for one of the two major political parties in the US to support the nomination of someone convicted for attempting to prevent the transfer of power? How could that be anything other than a constitutional crisis?

Me, I don't think it will come to that. But it's not out of the question.

I think he's doing a quite exceptional job. — Wayfarer

And in this, consists a claim that is entirely incomprehensible to anyone who disagrees. — AmadeusD

It's true that everyone who thinks Biden's done a bad job is not likely to comprehend why anyone would think he did a good job. However, it's certainly comprehensible to anyone who examines the record.

Personally, I consider Trump the worst President in history, but I can comprehend the things his supporters find appealing.

I actually think Trump is running for POTUS again to get out of his legal troubles...

He announced his campaign months before the first indictment.

My understanding is that delegates are committed by the time the convention rolls around. I guess they could vote to change that rule, but I doubt they would - since (by and large) they believe Trump has been treated unfairly.

It was, in fact, the indictment you seem to be avoiding, of his followers ;)

I do not think they would comprehend these things, and I also rest on the fact that both your position on theirs is probably not accurate.

Also, I got no notification for this. Hope that doesn't continue...

Technically true, but an indictment for his mishandling of national security documents was highly likely before he announced.

August 22, 2022 - Mar-a-Lago search warrant executed
November 15, 2022 - announced candidacy.

He had indicated earlier that he had already made up his mind, that it was only a question of when he’d announce. A month later they raid Mar-a-lago.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/donald-trump-2024-decision.html

Latest polls on the general election:

Biden 44% Trump 43% (yougove, 10th Jan)
Biden 41% Trump 43% (morning consult, 14th Jan)
Biden 37% Trump 45% (The Atlanta Journal)

I think Biden was way ahead in the polls prior to the last elections, wasn't he? — ssu

He was, and the funny thing is that I think alot of the current polls show a generic democrat leading by the same amount that Biden did in 2020. It's not that Trump is particularly strong, it's just that the Democrats are insisting on running someone who's just as weak, which would be baffling in retrospect if they end up losing this year because the path to victory seems pretty clear at this point.

baffling in retrospect if they end up losing this year because the path to victory seems pretty clear at this point. — Mr Bee

Its already baffling. That anyone thinks running Biden is a good move is beyond blind.

You can say the same for the Republicans running Trump since as the polls suggest he's also massively unpopular as well compared to a generic Republican. Of course the GOP don't really have much of a choice since Trump's base is pretty much a cult and he's a narcissist, but I would've thought that Biden would be humble enough to step aside instead of risking it all for a chance at a second term. And I would've thought that Democratic leadership would be smart enough to pressure him to bow out, but then again this is the same party that would rather wheel in Feinstein to the Senate instead of getting her to resign a decade ago. And this is after letting RBG stay on the SCOTUS despite being in her 80s with multiple previous experiences with cancer...

The odd thing about this election is that if either side decided to just run a generic representative of their own party then they'd certainly win. Anyone else but Trump would certainly win against Biden and anyone but Biden would certainly win against Trump. But instead we're getting the rematch nobody wanted.

I paste this in from time to time, just to jog the collective memory.



How anyone thinks that the guy behind this outrage is a fit and proper person for the candidacy beggars belief.

100%. From the outside this election is a joke