Voted last night in the primary. Quiet at the polling place. My vote for Vermin Supreme was part of a complicated moral strategy which will make a big difference.

Tbf, any person at least five years younger than Trump is probably a better option. Though, that gives them room to prove me wrong :lol:

IMO, all things being equal as of the 24th day of the year, Biden doesn't need to "start a war" to get reelected against a party that has lost every popular vote (i.e. general, midterm, off-year & special elections) since 2016 and against a (prospective) nominee whose support has shrunk since 2020 because he has done – continues to do – nothing to expand his support. The MAGA-GOP is a shrinking dead cult walking (à la Jim Jones) off of an electoral cliff. Just my $0.02. :mask:

Can you anticipate your response (in regard to the above, not your immediate visceral response) to a Trump win? I'm merely curious.

Working? Better prepared now?

Virtual Hatred: How Russia Tried to Start a Race War in the United States
^{— William J Aceves · California Western School of Law · 2019}
Vladimir Putin’s plan to ‘tear the US apart’ during 2024 election exposed
^{— Charlie Bradley · Express · Dec 23, 2023}
Russia’s War on Woke
^{— Mikhail Zygar · Foreign Affairs · Jan 2, 2024}

As things stand today, I can't imagine Loser-1 pulling a Grover Cleveland (1892) this fall. Of course, 9½ months is like many lifetimes in US electoral politics and so much could happen, no matter how improbably, to snatch Biden's & the Dems' defeat from the jaws of victory; in that case however, well, the banana republicanization of the US would be complete (spasibo, Vlad :shade:) and then I'd whole-heartedly support the secession of N. California, Oregon & Washington in order to form the independent Republic of Pacifica (btw, I'm a resident of Washington state) – or just resign myself and my community to riding out the obligatory, likely catastrophic, attempt to restore regular 'constitutional' order by military coup, etc. :mask:

Thank you mate - appreciate the response. While I'm not as dire, I feel roughly the same.

My only comment is that I think you'd get a huge amount of pushback on Pacifica, as this would be seen as an aggressive appropriation of Pasifika :)

, if it were to come to that (significant internal US instability/strife), then there'd be a wider impact as well. Authoritarian regimes would have a bit less to worry about (or to deter them), which, in turn, would come back to impact the US. So, strifers would invite this.

And Canada might build a border wall. :)

EDITED

And Canada might build a border wall. :) — jorndoe

:up:

the banana republicanization of the US would be complete — 180 Proof

I am old and my memory fades, but did we become a Banana Republic during 2016-2020?

Maybe this time around . . . :chin:

I offer this dire prediction concerning the election campaigns…

Mr Trump will be in middle of a rally or debate, in full harangue, and despite being in excellent physical condition and of serene disposition, will suffer a massive heart attack and/or stroke in front of a huge audience. He falls to the ground, and gawking onlookers hear him say ‘Ivanka is soooo hot…’

Whether or not he survives depends on whether prayers on his behalf are directed toward the correct deity. (There are so many gods these days. They are harder to get a hold of, and even harder to understand, than tech support from India).

I myself am praying fervently to Jupiter that this tragedy may be averted!

Well, as US Senator Tim Scott's proud and dignified "twin", I'm praying to the Light Fifty for a "Second Amendment solution" with extreme prejudice to this MAGA Cult problem no later than the Fourth of July 2024. :pray:

I predict just before the presidential election Biden will declare war, possibly with Iran. — jgill

If Biden were to declare a war, it would probably improve (isolationist)Trump's chances.

Agreed, but it would certainly put in question some of his swing-voters who might return to Patriotism™ as their guiding light

:cool: :cool: :cool:

Mr Trump will be in middle of a rally or debate, in full harangue, and despite being in excellent physical condition and of serene disposition... — 0 thru 9

ROFLMAO!

Thank you, Mr Surge the Borders President. :roll: — jgill

Ironically, right now Trump seems to be holding up an immigration bill in the Senate that would help address the border that the GOP seems to approve of.

Then again I don't expect people to blame him. After all he got off scot free for the recent spike in oil prices despite pulling out of the Iran deal and cutting their supply off from the rest of the world.

Thanks! Haha, that was an attempt at some subtle irony or British-style dry humour. :nerd:

Ironically, right now Trump seems to be holding up an immigration bill in the Senate that would help address the border that the GOP seems to approve of. — Mr Bee

It's not 'ironic', it's a deliberate tactic. He's furious that if the bill goes any way to addressing the problem, then it will reflect positively on Joe Biden. He wants the problem to be as bad as possible, so he can use it against Biden and then take credit for solving it himself.

I don't expect people to blame him. — Mr Bee

The Senate Republicans and the moderate Republicans in Congress are all furious about it.

It's not 'ironic', it's a deliberate tactic. He's furious that if the bill goes any way to addressing the problem, then it will reflect positively on Joe Biden. He wants the problem to be as bad as possible, so he can use it against Biden and then take credit for solving it himself. — Wayfarer

A fair assessment. I despise the two candidates. I keep hoping a third candidate will materialize.

I despise the two candidates. — jgill

Do you equally "despise" what Biden & Trump represent? Are their respective parties (coalitions) equally bad for the majority of communities in the US or equally detrimental to US interests vis-à-vis international relations (e.g. trade agreements, political treaties, strategic alliances)? Do you believe, jgill, the adverse difference between them is one of degree or a difference in kind? :chin:

Indeed. That is a salient question. I often ask something similar when I hear the old 'both parties/leaders are equally shit' trope. Things are rarely equally bad. I practice harm minimisation in politics. Clearly some options are far worse than others, even if the less worse is still fundamentally flawed.

I despise the far left and the far right equally. Those politicians close to the center have my respect, generally. And I despise both Biden and Trump equally. I have a plethora of reasons for my attitudes. No sense in elaborating. It's all been said over and over.

:D

I put more trust in him than any of the usuals, that's for sure -- a better constant than anyone else! :D

It's not 'ironic', it's a deliberate tactic. He's furious that if the bill goes any way to addressing the problem, then it will reflect positively on Joe Biden. He wants the problem to be as bad as possible, so he can use it against Biden and then take credit for solving it himself. — Wayfarer

Oh I understand very well his intentions. He's also on record saying he wants the economy to crash and the US to default on it's debt if it means he can score political points. The man doesn't care about anything apart from staying out of prison.

The Senate Republicans and the moderate Republicans in Congress are all furious about it. — Wayfarer

I'm talking about the average American voter.

I despise the far left — jgill

With all due respect, sir, if you believe Biden in anyway represents "the far left" (i.e. to the left of Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, Nancy Pelosi, Ralph Nader, et al), then you've not been paying attention for the last half century to Biden's political career.

And I despise both Biden and Trump equally.

So in your mind, woke corporate welfare-statism IS JUST AS BAD FOR YOUR COUNTRY AS autocratic ethnonational populism? Biden the neoliberal EQUALS Trump the neofascist?

(I guess, jgill, it's reasonable to assume, based on your reply, that in sum your answers to my previous post are: yes, yes, & difference in degree.)

I practice harm minimisation in politics. Clearly some options are far worse than others, even if the less worse is still fundamentally flawed. — Tom Storm

:up: :up:

it amuses and surprises me when people think an obedient servant to corporate power, a conservative like Biden is significantly of the left. Just goes to show how muddled political thinking can be.

↪180 Proof
I despise the far left and the far right equally. Those politicians close to the center have my respect, generally. And I despise both Biden and Trump equally. — jgill

if you believe Biden in anyway represents "the far left" — 180 Proof

Not what I said. Doesn't logically follow. And this is a forum dedicated to logical arguments?

So in your mind, woke corporate welfare-statism IS JUST AS BAD FOR THE COUNTRY AS autocratic ethnonational populism? Biden the neoliberal EQUALS Trump the neofascist? — 180 Proof

When I watch sanctuary regions in our country struggling to absorb, medically treat, educate and bring into our culture vast numbers of illegal immigrants; some if not many of whom who escape capture cartel affiliated, it gives me pause to consider what you have so emotionally described. Is the establishment of cartels that grow so powerful they essentially control governments better than a neofascist who moves to destroy them?

This is all hypothetical. I still hope for a moderate candidate to arise from the quagmire in which we wallow.

I still hope for a moderate candidate to arise from the quagmire in which we wallow. — jgill

Any more "moderate" than Biden would be useless, a complete corporate tool. I'm hoping for (at least) a solid left-liberal like Gov. Newsom or Gov. Witmer if Biden drops out.

... aka "FOX Noise Pollution" :mask:

I'm hoping for (at least) a solid left-liberal like Gov. Newsom or Gov. Witmer if Biden drops out. — 180 Proof

My wife and I watched Bill Maher interview Newsom last week. She is more conservative than me, but we agreed he was very, very impressive and that we would vote for him under different circumstances.