The suggestion is to form an orderly queue
— unenlightened
"An orderly queue" for what? Dying? To be executed? — baker
Because you're sticking to your old guns. — baker
I'm not criticizing you for being rude or mean, I'm criticizing you for being ineffective. Because I want you to be effective.
You have some really strange ideas about my intentions here. — baker
For me, a question like, "How do you talk to someone who thinks that mankind will adapt to whatever comes, when it comes; so that this person will change their mind and act differently, more in line with planet preservation?" makes perfect sense, to you, it clearly doesn't. — baker
But is being harsh to those people leading to the result you want, namely, an improved state of the planet? — baker
I think it should still be possible to talk to such people in ways that will get through them.
It might just take more creativity and effort, and inventing new strategies. — baker
How are you going to "just do what's needed"? By abolishing democracy? — baker
I think they just fight against having their minds changed by the strategies used so far. Other strategies might yield better results. — baker
As an example, I used to work as a mathematics tutor. A highschool student came in to be tutored about linear functions. This was her last chance; if she would fail the next test, she would be expelled from school. The situation was dire. She was first tutored by an older tutor, I witnessed some of their sessions. It was clear right away that the student didn't have a grasp on fractions and rules for solving equations. Without mastering those basic things, it's impossible to do linear functions. But the old tutor insisted on working on linear functions with the student. They made no progress and he gave up on her, declaring her to be a hopeless case. The student was then assigned to me. We spent the summer learning fractions and basic rules for equations, things she should have mastered years ago. She passed the test, completed her education, even earned and master's degree.
Your attitude is that of a teacher; a teacher's goal is to teach. My attitude is that of a tutor; a tutor's goal is to get the student to learn the subject matter, (almost) no matter what it takes. — baker
There you go, outsourcing responsibility again. — baker
if there are deniers, there's no point in trying to convince them as they are acting through a cult mentality. You cannot convince them as long as they are deeply rooted within their community of denial. — Christoffer
they don't believe everything that you want them to believe — Agree-to-Disagree
By century’s end, 183 of 195 countries, barring an influx of immigrants, will have fallen below the replacement threshold needed to maintain population levels, it said. — Agree-to-Disagree
Populations either grow or fall — Lionino
I'm all for education, but we don't have time to educate people in order for them to support solutions to a damn comet on collision course with earth. In such a situation you simply ignore the ignorant and take the necessary action that is needed right now.
There may be a handful of sceptics who genuinely don’t accept the science. But they will fade away soon as the climactic impacts start to be felt. — Punshhh
There may be a handful of sceptics who genuinely don’t accept the science. But they will fade away soon as the climactic impacts start to be felt. — Punshhh
The impacts of climate change will change their minds soon enough — Punshhh
Are you saying that the existence of sceptics shows that there are people who are not feeling the impacts of climatic change?
that requires a level of martial law as it is a war against inaction. Any industry that does not have a strategy or plan to change course will lose their execs and board, any politicians who don't have a serious plan for changing a nation's course in time will be removed from power. — Christoffer
But there is an enormous inertia in the system and the culture. Many of us are banging our heads against this wall of inertia. — Punshhh
Eventually one realises all we can do is play our part from the position we are in within society. Ideally one would become a politician run for office and change things. Or figure out a way to change peoples minds through some kind of media organisation, or protest group. But again the inertia hits home and many people are already doing these things. In fact some of these people are pushing so hard that media campaigns are growing to discredit them as extremists and pull more people into climate denial. — Punshhh
So one reaches a point of acceptance, an acceptance that the crisis is enormous and irreversible and we as a species are to weak to prevent it. This is quite normal, the list of species extinctions in the fossil record is long and there is an inevitability to it. — Punshhh
It is too late now to overcome this current cycle of climate change, however if some portion of humanity can survive, adapt and preserve our intellectual and technological achievements sufficiently that they can be conveyed to the next flourishing of civilisation. There is an increased chance of achieving a that custodial role. — Punshhh
Or just change course now. If that's our future and people would start to realize this to be a very likely outcome, then they will pick up guns and remove anyone who do not actively work to fix it. It's easy to ignore it now, but when enough people get the short end of the stick, they will soon organize and do something. We might see billions of them. Billions who have nothing else they can do but storm the castles of immorality.
The problem is that any breakdown in civil order would inevitably disrupt commerce and turn politics more authoritarian. — Punshhh
Programmes of education to educate the population in the severity and pressing nature of the threat would be effective in spreading the word. — Punshhh
You say we are able to make the necessary changes and prevent catastrophe. But I would say it is too late now — Punshhh
It looks as though the transition to carbon neutral transport is not going to be rolled out in time and may fail, with either a move back to oil, or a collapse of transport systems. — Punshhh
The rest of the world would be cut loose and would have to fend for themselves. — Punshhh
Like, Russia should be totally isolated. China should be totally isolated. With the only key to the door being that they stop oil. If not, they can hunger until the people storm the leader's castles.
It's too late for some consequences, but giving up would be far more catastrophic. There's no point in just stop mitigation. But we have to speed up the change and do it fast.
And it's been done to death. How much more education do these people need? The denial group have slowly started to go into just acceptance of a changing world, but they do so in the context of not acting anyway. The outcome of their reasoning is the same as their previous pure denial. — Christoffer
A carrot usually works better than a stick. — Agree-to-Disagree
A carrot usually works better than a stick. — Agree-to-Disagree
The French revolution had much needed beheadings. — Benkei
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