Socrates wants to banish the poets from the just city. The philosophers and not the poets should be the educators, the myth makers, the makers of truth, and of proper conduct toward men and gods. — Fooloso4
All of that said, I'm not an atheist. But I no longer worry about any ongoing debate about God's existence; I'm now bored by them. — Noble Dust
I thought Plato saw poetry as immoral, distracting folk from truth. Doesn't he also agree that poetry has a role some later works? — Tom Storm
How are we to understand this today - sounds like a culture war. Was it that poetry functioned a bit like sophistry, using its artfulness to manipulate rather than identify the good? — Tom Storm
When Moses asked for God's name, God just said "I am". Sounds very Eastern. — Fire Ologist
Only today there is no one comparable to Plato or Aristophanes. I don't think it was a matter of manipulating the good, but rather, in the absence of knowledge of the good, making images of its likeness. — Fooloso4
This very much reminds of my mother's idiosyncratic non-doctrinnaire, or ceremonial, Catholicism: quiet prayer-focused and weekly charity work usually in lieu of Mass. I wonder if this 'blessed' state is why she's still the healthiest, most optimistic octogenerian I know.Her relationship with the version of God she believed in was secure without intervention or interpretation. — Vera Mont
I wonder if this 'blessed' state is why she's still the healthiest, most optimistic octogenerian I know. — 180 Proof
What evidence or experience would convince you that (e.g.) "the God of Abraham" exists? — 180 Proof
262. I can imagine a man who had grown up in quite special circumstances and been taught that the earth came into being 50 years ago, and therefore believed this. We might instruct him: the earth has long… etc.—We should be trying to give him our picture of the world.
This would happen through a kind of persuasion.
612. At the end of reasons comes persuasion. (Think what happens when missionaries convert natives.) — Wittgenstein, On Certainty
With a question like this, I am always mindful of Clarke's third law, 'Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.' How do we tell the difference between an apparent miracle and something else? — Tom Storm
Perhaps God IS an alien with advanced technology. — Agree-to-Disagree
I am always mindful of Voltaire's statement, "if god did not exist, it would be necessary to invent him". — Agree-to-Disagree
Perhaps God IS an alien with advanced technology. If so, then he/she has not followed the Prime Directive (from Star Trek - the guiding principle that prohibits interfering with the natural development of other civilizations). — Agree-to-Disagree
:chin: I can't imagine it would take anything less radical than sudden onset acute schizophrenia or dementia (or maybe undergoing a full lobotomy) for me to believe that – hallucinate – some "personal god" (e.g. mageia) exists. Otherwise, I think I'm too old now (60) – too committed to p-naturalism (plus e.g. Clarke's 3rd Law —> Schroeder's Law^) – to be persuaded (rationally or not) out of my life-long, irreligious disbelief. No doubt, however, stranger things than 180° de-conversion have been known to happen, so ... :mask:What would you need? — Tom Storm
who is it they suppose is really there, buried underneath those horrible stories in the OT? — Tom Storm
What evidence or experience would convince you that(e.g.) "the God of Abraham"at least one personal God/dess (of any religious tradition) exists? — 180 Proof
:fire:For me, the question is what evidence or experience would convince me of the nature of the universe [ ... ] It appears to me that everything is interconnected [ontologically inseparable] and in a constant state of change. That indicates to me that emptiness is the nature of the universe. — praxis
:100:That's the beauty of imaginary entities: they are infinitely adaptable and interpretable [ ... ] not to explain things, which they could do very well for themselves, accurately or otherwise, but to grant wishes. The gods are images of man magnified to whatever size it takes to grant their wishes. — Vera Mont
like an ant can't comprehend the larger world beyond its capacity — praxis
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