I think it should be repealed and we should stay on winter time to "save daylight", which is still an energy conserving measure during winter.

I see no reason why everything in the world, including sunlight, should be subject to the convenience of business. It's certainly no good for anyone else!

Should Americans keep daylight saving time? — TiredThinker

I doubt that too many people are actually aware of the reasons of it, the problems with it and benefits of it.

I used to love being out in daylight late at night, it made parents less likely to send you to bed if it was still light outside.

I live not that far from the equator so the time difference is not that great between the cooler months and the hotter ones, but have daylight saving time here would mean that I never have to leave the house to go to work in the dark. It would also allow me time to work around the house when I get home.
They tried it here once, and made a mess of it because of lack of public knowledge, they had not done a very good job of educating the people.

In the more northern latitudes, where DST is rigidly implemented, we still have to get up in the dark and, if we have a longish commute or errands on the way, as most working women do, arrive home in the dark all winter long. Wage-earning people still need the lights on while they have breakfast and supper. So we haven't gained anything by the twice yearly inconvenience and disruption of our biorhythms.

:up:

Research shows it really confuses a person's internal clock, and has shown to significantly increase stroke and heart attack risk in older people. — TiredThinker

I was thinking about this today. Maybe Americans should stop flying all over the world as well because they go back and forth in time zones causing the same changes the way that DST does. But a lot of them still do it several times a year and often for more that one hour time difference.

Is there any data on how many people die from strokes and heart attacks caused by unnatural time changes to a person's internal clock?

Is there any data on how many people die from strokes and heart attacks caused by unnatural time changes to a person's internal clock? — Sir2u

I doubt it would be easy to document, given the number of old people making international flights twice a year. Another issue that could perhaps be taken with that argument is that people fly voluntarily, and in most cases, on vacation, so that they have a chance to recover from jet-lag, while people living under mandated time-changes have no choice and no time to recover.

There are a few other side-effects. https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2023/7-things-to-know-about-daylight-saving-time

Nevertheless, I agree with this part:

Maybe Americans should stop flying all over the world — Sir2u

So should everyone else.

Another issue that could perhaps be taken with that argument is that people fly voluntarily, and in most cases, on vacation, so that they have a chance to recover from jet-lag, while people living under mandated time-changes have no choice and no time to recover. — Vera Mont

I think that there are a lot of people flying because of business, and I would suppose that they are under some sort of pressure with little time to recover.

There are a few other side-effects. https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2023/7-things-to-know-about-daylight-saving-time — Vera Mont

Well after reading that I would also suggest that all of the places that work on rotating shifts should also be stopped.

https://redline.digital/shift-work-statistics/

I think that there are a lot of people flying because of business, and I would suppose that they are under some sort of pressure with little time to recover. — Sir2u

And that is wrong! Anybody sent abroad by their employer should be given time to recover from the flight before they're expected to carry out an assignment effectively. Smart employers already know this.

Well after reading that I would also suggest that all of the places that work on rotating shifts should also be stopped. — Sir2u

Except hospitals and emergency services. Sometimes staffing a place is essential; most times it's a matter of making more money.
As to the question of shift work, it's not quite this simple. For some families, survival depends on both parents of young children working full-time: one has to be taking care of the children while the other is at work. For some people, night work is preferable for other reasons. Generally, people on regular night, day or evening shift do better in terms of sleep pattern and emotional adjustment than people on rotating or variable shift, but that is by no means universal. Also, of course, there is a social life to consider.

Working in a capitalist economy is difficult and complicated enough, why make it worse by screwing with the clock?

https://newsroom.heart.org/news/biological-clock-shock

I don't think most people travel that much in a given year. Vacations maybe.

:)

And that is wrong! — Vera Mont

Oh.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/539518/us-air-passengers-main-trip-purposes-by-type/

It would seem that only about half of the people flying are doing so for pleasure. That would mean that half of them would be doing so because they are obliged to do so.

Anybody sent abroad by their employer should be given time to recover from the flight before they're expected to carry out an assignment effectively. Smart employers already know this. — Vera Mont

I underlined the key word for you there, I think we can be sure that not all of them do so and not all employers follow US work laws either.

As there is a forecast of about 10 billion people flying this year, probably about 5 billion will be non leisure. If we are conservative and say that maybe 1% of them have some sort of stress attached to their journey that would be a lot of people with the possibility of suffering heart problems. Why are we not hearing all about the health risks of these people?

Working in a capitalist economy is difficult and complicated enough, why make it worse by screwing with the clock? — Vera Mont

Rise in heart attacks and strokes

Every year, on the Monday after DST comes into effect, hospitals report a 24% spike in heart attack visits around the US.

Just a coincidence? Probably not. Doctors see an opposite trend each fall: The day after we turn back the clocks, heart attack visits drop 21% as many people enjoy a little extra pillow time.

This is probably true, but it does not explain the cause. there are various reports that suggest the entire effect can be attributed to disruptions in sleep patterns rather than changes in ambient light exposure or person's internal clock.

Some doctors actual say that if you went to bed earlier a few days before your body would adjust naturally.

As there is a forecast of about 10 billion people flying this year, probably about 5 billion will be non leisure. — Sir2u

So, we can look forward to another pandemic. What fun!!

This is probably true, but it does not explain the cause. there are various reports that suggest the entire effect can be attributed to disruptions in sleep patterns rather than changes in ambient light exposure or person's internal clock. — Sir2u

The disruption of sleep patterns is caused by messing with the clock - so, same difference. If you have the freedom to go to bed whenever you like, of course you could mitigate the effect of disruptive external pressures. But working people, especially working parents, rarely have that luxury.
DST doesn't bother me, since I'm long retired from a regimented working life and set my own hours of operation, according to my own biorhythms - as everyone should.

The disruption of sleep patterns is caused by messing with the clock - so, same difference. If you have the freedom to go to bed whenever you like, of course you could mitigate the effect of disruptive external pressures. But working people, especially working parents, rarely have that luxury.
DST doesn't bother me, since I'm long retired from a regimented working life and set my own hours of operation, according to my own biorhythms - as everyone should. — Vera Mont

Like you, DST has no affect on my life either.
But my point is not whether it is worth while or beneficial having DST, but the fact that so many people have lived with it all their lives without any effects at all makes one wonder about the "FACTS". Meanwhile so many people willing put themselves through basically the same thing by flying around the world through not just one time zone change(the equivalent of DST) but many time zones and then back again on the return trip. And lets not even think about all of the people that deprive them selves of sleep to go out partying every weekend.
Even the statistics do not actually collaborate that DST is the cause of deaths. This is one of the better reports I found about it. It actually contradicts some of the other reports about when the DST related deaths happen. Sadly although supposedly being one of the biggest investigations on the topic it still only covers a small part of the world population.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-022-34704-9

As many reports point out, there is no real evidence that DST is functional in the sense that it was supposed to work. The fact that more people spend there long evenings inside with the air conditioner run sort of negates the energy saving part of the plan. But the fact that people nowadays are actually receiving less natural sunlight that before just might be the cause of the deaths that are blamed on DST.

Public opinion about getting rid of DST is about as valuable as public opinion of flying saucers, it is mostly based on ignorance and fear. So that fact that so many people, including politicians, wanting to abolish it should have nothing to do with it. Abolition of DST should be based on facts about whether or not it is serving it proposed purposes in todays world and not fear mongering.

Anyway, I think I am finished with this topic, unless someone brings something else of interest to the table. Nice chatting with you all.

Fair enough. You don't actually have to die or get seriously ill in order to be adversely affected by outside pressure to conform, and most of the human population conforms to inconvenient, uncomfortable, harmful and destructive systems of behaviour due to external pressures.
DST is just one more senseless, crazy thing in a world entirely run on insane values and principles.

Fair enough. It's just one more senseless, crazy thing in a world entirely run on insane values and principles. — Vera Mont

I could not agree with you more. :wink:

I have literally like 20 clocks in my house, many of which are the wind up chiming type. I have no explanation for why that is.

When it is time to move the clocks back, it's especially difficult, particularly for those clocks that you have to move the time forward and not back and so you have to revolve an entire day's time to change the time.

There have been occassions where the process of changing the clocks took so long that it was already time to change them back by the time I finished. That resulted in the process beginning again and I stood in my home crying in a blubbering sort of way as I ran perpetually between clocks trying to get them changed so I could be done and finally have some peace and enjoy my sandwich.

Pastrami on rye awaited me. Imagine how difficult that was.

Pastrami on rye awaited me. Imagine how difficult that was. — Hanover

Almost as traumatic as figuring out how to reset the clock in the car. Discovered that the new car has a DST button. I found a solution for the clock problem: let them wind down. Some are in deep forgotten storage. Seventeen assorted dead watches are waiting for me to assemble them into a work of art that has yet to be conceived. The one I used to wear stopped early in the pandemic and I neglected to replace the battery.
They have never since caused me to miss a meal.