A weird response, — Mikie

Don't take it personal, but I do get a bit fed up with being told my language and/or attitude is the problem. The solution we are going for at the moment is 'most people die', along with a mass extinction.

Language matter, especially in media headlines for the part of the masses who are stupid enough to only read the headlines; but who carry enough democratic power to vote people into power who actively act against mitigation strategies. — Christoffer

Obviously those people are not reading climate scientists or philosophy forums, so there is no problem. Oh, but wait - there is a problem, and it's not careless talk that is costing lives, but closed ears.


Here's some people taking it seriously. Because when things get tough, the tough get going. I'm just leaving this link here for my own reminder really, but if anyone wants to look at the security implications, here are some folk already doing that.
https://climateandsecurity.org

Don't take it personal, but I do get a bit fed up with being told my language and/or attitude is the problem. The solution we are going for at the moment is 'most people die', along with a mass extinction.

They don’t mean you. They mean the people who inform the ordinary voter.

Don't take it personal, but I do get a bit fed up with being told my language — unenlightened

Seems like you took that personally.

I wasn’t talking about you, I was talking about the effects of defeatism. Maybe you feel it’s already over. In that case, fine— but I’m not sure that’s true yet. Seems a self-fulfilling prophecy.

First there was Big Tobacco
Then there was Big Oil
Now there is Big Meat

The next big climate deadline is for meat and dairy

Nearly two decades ago, a United Nations report marked the livestock sector as one of the most polluting industries on the planet. Ever since, there’s been a steady drip of research on the need to scale back meat production in high- and middle-income countries.

[The meat] Industry is fighting back. A well-oiled PR machine composed of shadowy communications groups, industry-funded academics, and pro-meat influencers all push out the message that livestock aren’t so bad for the planet. Their claims have ranged from misleading scientific arguments to hollow corporate greenwashing to outright disinformation. — Vox (Kenny Torrella)

Does this sound familiar? :scream:

This makes a welcome change from climate activists glueing themselves to things. :grin:

In protest of the suggested ban on gas stoves, I’m staying taped to this stove forever. — Chef Andrew Gruel (@ChefGruel)

Maybe you feel it’s already over. In that case, fine — Mikie

Not at all. My feeling is that ..."It's only just begun." Which has been my tag line in this thread several times.

And fine it is not going to be — stormy, rather. But I have given up hoping that sense and decency will prevail in the near future; rather, starvation, war, and greedy stupidity will do the job instead.

But I have given up hoping that sense and decency will prevail in the near future; rather, starvation, war, and greedy stupidity will do the job instead. — unenlightened

Okay. In that case I mostly agree in theory— in practice I have to adopt more optimism, otherwise I guarantee it happens. But history seems on your side, yes.

Be not too hard, for life is short,
And nothing is given to man;
Be not too hard when he is sold and bought,
And he must manage as best he can;
Be not too hard when he blindly dies
Fighting for things he does not own;
And be not too hard when he tells lies,
Or his heart is sometimes like a stone;
Be not too hard, for soon he'll die,
Often no wiser than he began;
Be not too hard, for life is short,
And nothing is given to man. — Christopher Logue

There is within environmentalism a kind of despair which often afflicts one. Rather like the lightbulb moment when one first realises the full magnitude of the climate crisis. It is written about in the book, The confessions of a recovering environmentalist. However once one has passed the next stage after that of acceptance that it’s going to happen and one might as well enjoy life in the meantime. Rather than put it on hold, that an equilibrium can be reached.

Indeed. It is harder I think for the young - my daughters do not seem to want children. When I was procreating, there was still hope. But there is room until the very last gasp for kindness and affection, and to make what adaptations one can...

https://community.deepadaptation.info

But there is room until the very last gasp for kindness and affection, and to make what adaptations one can... — unenlightened

:pray:

Dude, you are so lucky. Soon you will be living in a tropical paradise. — Agree-to-Disagree

Yay me.

A discussion of various things, that might be of interest.

From the video "Chaos in the Climate Casino"

Dr. Eliot Jacobson is a retired professor of mathematics, computer science, as well as a casino industry consultant.

Dr. Eliot Jacobson: Can I just add one thing to what you said much earlier in the conversation, and maybe we can go back and forth if you have thoughts on this. But the idea that the IPCC started out with the 1750 baseline. I actually tracked that down because, you know, there are some people who will argue that that was part of some fraud that was sort of being perpetrated on us to change how much we've really warmed.

Dr. Eliot Jacobson: I believe the language is they talk about the 30-year period centered on 1750, which would be 1735 to 1765, more or less, which is actually 31 years, I never quite got how they got 30 years out of that.

Dr. Eliot Jacobson is a "retired professor of mathematics, computer science, as well as a casino industry consultant". But he couldn't work out how they got 30 years out of the date range from 1735 to 1765.

Even I can do that (work out how they got 30 years out of the date range from 1735 to 1765) !!!. :nerd:

President Biden has done more to address climate change than any of his predecessors. So far, voters don’t seem to care.

https://www.wsj.com/politics/elections/biden-is-spending-1-trillion-to-fight-climate-change-voters-dont-care-21d8cb05?mod=mhp

:chin:

At least nice that the reactionary Wall Street Journal acknowledges his climate bona fides.

Here are some interesting comments about School Strike for Climate.

A bigger problem with the School Strike for Climate is one set out beautifully in the Oxford Union Debate by Konstantin Kisin.

In short, there are billions of poor people in the world. They are really poor. Their children will struggle to get enough nutrition to develop properly. They are the 10 per cent or so who still live in absolute poverty. They can see a path to a richer life, and the developed world has already trodden it.

They want to use technologies that affordably raise our life expectancies, usually emitting lots of carbon dioxide. They’re not going to not do it, just like Westerners are not going to not feed their children. They will feed their children first and worry about emissions second. It should be a familiar pattern to Westerners.

Demanding that governments damage their economies in the name of climate science won’t help the planet. What will help, as Kisin concludes, is science and technology that allows the poorest people in the world to feed themselves without large emissions.

You can see Konstantin Kisin's part of the Oxford Union Debate on Youtube here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJdqJu-6ZPo

A transcript is available.

The latest from our resident climate denial propagandist:

Here are some interesting comments about School Strike for Climate. — Agree-to-Disagree

Before even reading, I’m thinking to myself “Gee, I wonder if these ‘interesting comments’ will have a negative slant?”

Demanding that governments damage their economies in the name of climate science — Agree-to-Disagree

:lol: What complete bullshit.

The school strikes are heroic and inspirational, climate denial propaganda notwithstanding.

And yet,

https://www.forbes.com/sites/rrapier/2024/03/12/eia-confirms-historic-us-oil-production-record/?sh=6fcd85824048

No matter who we have as president, if it's valuable, it's going to be dug up and sold or used. Biden can chip away at the problem at the margins and push for more EV's and fewer gas stoves, but that is just putting a finger in the climate dike. Gas went up a buck a gallon in the last four years, and there will howls of protest as if the world was coming to an end. People aren't willing to make the sacrifices necessary for real solutions.

People aren't willing to make the sacrifices necessary for real solutions. — RogueAI

Right, so it’s hopeless. Cool analysis. Bye.

Right, so it’s hopeless. Cool analysis. Bye. — Mikie

Not hopeless, but what we're currently doing is obviously not working. People are not willing to make the sacrifices necessary to transition away from fossil fuels. Poor and developing countries are also going to keep using fossil fuels. We're going to have to either hope for some tech miracle, hope the Earth is self-regulating in some way as to prevent warming from getting too bad, or geo-engineering our way out of it.

Cheer up, though. Embrace idealism. This is all just a dream. It's meaningless. Work on adjusting your attitude so you attract a better reality for yourself.

People are not willing to make the sacrifices necessary to transition away from fossil fuels. — RogueAI

People make sacrifices all the time, especially for the oil industry. Whether they know it or not. The assessment that everyone needs to “sacrifice” for a green transition in the first place is silly — but even if true, since we all do it all the time anyway, it’s really yet another way of justifying the status quo. “Nothing can be done— the people don’t want to sacrifice!”

No thanks. If you feel nothing can be done, then go on doing nothing.

We're going to have to either hope for some tech miracle, hope the Earth is self-regulating in some way as to prevent warming from getting too bad, or geo-engineering our way out of it. — RogueAI

Yes, because your expert knowledge on this issue is definitely worth paying attention to. :up:

No thanks. If you feel nothing can be done, then go on doing nothing. — Mikie

As opposed to being a massive dick to people on some obscure philosophy forum? If you're so upset about climate change, why are you wasting your time here? Do you think your ramblings here are helping the planet in any way? There must be some painting somewhere you could be scheming to throw some soup at.

As opposed to being a massive dick to people on some obscure philosophy forum? — RogueAI

Mikie doesn't want to accept reality. It is either Mikie's way or the highway.

Be careful. When Mikie is cornered he can be quite nasty.

The latest from our resident climate denial propagandist: — Mikie

:lol: What a bunch of imbeciles. — Mikie

Right, so it’s hopeless. Cool analysis. Bye. — Mikie

No thanks. If you feel nothing can be done, then go on doing nothing. — Mikie

Yes, because your expert knowledge on this issue is definitely worth paying attention to. :up: — Mikie

Note that Mikie considers himself to be an "expert" about climate change, and believes that he is superior to everybody else. If only the governments of the world and the oil companies would listen to Mikie then climate change would not be a problem. The people who still live in absolute poverty will happily obey Mikie. I hope that Mikie doesn't fall off his pedestal, or fall off his high horse.

When two climate geniuses agree, you know you’re on the right track. :victory:

Some months ago when I put myself in his Crosshairs, I actually put together a log of his intensely uncivil insulting comments to posters who did nothing of the sort to him. It ran to something like 22 entries, and I got bored trawling back through pages around page 50. So, there's plenty more im sure.

He deleted that comment logging his gross behaviour. He denies it, and continues to pretend that magically the comment disappeared. I have genuinely never seen someone as fragile as this guy.

The four types of climate denier, and why you should ignore them all

The four types of climate denier, and why you should ignore them all — Mikie

There is only one type of climate activist. The gullible, unrealistic, idiot.

They should be ignored or mocked. :scream:

Biden Administration Raises Costs to Drill and Mine on Public Lands

For the first time since 1920, the government has raised the rates that companies pay. The fossil fuel industry says it will hurt the economy.

About time.

Any time the fossil fuel industry says something will “hurt the economy,” what they mean is: now we’ll have to gouge consumers even more to maintain our returns for our billionaire masters.

Supporters say the changes announced Friday will better compensate taxpayers for fossil fuel extraction on federal lands, and that they will prevent taxpayers from footing the bill for cleanup of abandoned oil and gas wells. After ending their drilling operations or going out of business, fossil fuel companies have walked away from thousands of wells, leaving the sites leaking greenhouse gases and toxic substances such as arsenic and benzene.

The bipartisan infrastructure law of 2021 provided a record $4.7 billion for states’ efforts to plug these “orphan” wells. But the federal funding may make only a small dent in the problem, with some experts estimating that there could be millions of undiscovered orphan wells across the country.

“There are costs of doing business, and the industry should shoulder the costs of cleanup for their operations,” said Autumn Hanna, vice president of Taxpayers for Common Sense, a nonpartisan watchdog group. “They’re extracting oil and gas from public lands for their own profit, and those resources are owned by taxpayers, who should not be left to shoulder the cleanup costs themselves.”

Kate Groetzinger, communications manager at the Center for Western Priorities, a conservation group, said the changes are “only fair” after the country’s largest oil and gas companies reported their biggest annual profits in a decade last year. ExxonMobil reported $36 billion in earnings, while Chevron netted $21.4 billion.

https://global-tipping-points.org

Here is a large report that explains some of the tipping points and what we might expect and what we ought to be doing about it politically. It's fairly up to date, and well researched. Seems mightily optimistic to me about the ability/possibility for human society to find its own transformative positive tipping points in terms of world governance and mitigating technologies and lifestyle adaptation. But hope springs 'til the last minute.