So what is this debate about? That was the question at hand.. Is this about obedience? — schopenhauer1
Quite right. The religious need scholarship in order to make their scriptures palatable, even unto themselves. — Banno
@BannoThat is, let us assume the Abrahamic religionists have foolishly accepted a literally evil text to support their morality but they themselves are folks like all others in search for the truth and the good. And so they did as you say and have turned the text upside down to have it mean something you don't see anywhere in the text, that etymology impacts the meaning in no way.
This history lesson of how their world was formed even if true doesn't matter to what the binding of Isaac means. That you can read "break a leg" to mean break a leg doesn't mean you want an actor to fracture a leg. — Hanover
Some time afterward, God put Abraham to the test, saying to him, “Abraham.” He answered, “Here I am.”
....
“Do not raise your hand against the boy, or do anything to him. For now I know that you fear God, since you have not withheld your son, your favored one, from Me.”
When Abraham looked up, his eye fell upon a ram, caught in the thicket by its horns. So Abraham went and took the ram and offered it up as a burnt offering in place of his son.
...
I will bestow My blessing upon you and make your descendants as numerous as the stars of heaven and the sands on the seashore; and your descendants shall seize the gates of their foes.
All the nations of the earth shall bless themselves by your descendants, because you have obeyed My command.” — Genesis- Tanakh online
Now, in a study published today in the journal Tel Aviv, the pair reveals that ancient Judeans, in a period that spans throughout much of the first millennium B.C., enjoyed a diet that didn’t fully adhere to Jewish kosher laws. According to the study, archaeologists have found the remains of three non-kosher species in the two ancients Judean settlements—the Kingdom of Israel in the region’s north and the Kingdom of Judah in the south. Judah residents in particular ate a lot of catfish. These findings help scientists and historians build a more complete picture of how the ancient Judean cultures developed and adopted these rules.
According to rabbinic tradition, Moses, the most important prophet in Judaism, received the commandments that outlined how to live life as a Jew sometime around the 13th century B.C. Scholars don’t know exactly when these rules and practices were written down into the Torah, but in his upcoming book, Adler argues that evidence for its observance does not appear until the Hasmonean period that lasted from 140 B.C. to 37 B.C. And the point in history at which Judean citizens adopted the dietary rules prescribed in Torah into their lifestyles, essentially becoming kosher, is also not certain.
Adler has been working on the Origins of Judaism Archaeological Project, which aims to find out when ancient Judeans began to observe the laws of Torah, including dietary rules. He was hoping that the centuries-old fish scraps tossed away after dinner might help shed some light on that. “I can find out a lot about people by going through their garbage,” he says. “So we can learn a tremendous amount of what people were actually doing through the material remains they left behind—and this is particularly true for food.”
When both kingdoms rose to prominence, an average Judean denizen lived under the rule of a king, and was a farmer who plowed fields and harvested crops. With the exception of the societal elite, most individuals were illiterate. So while the educated intellectuals of the time had penned down laws, scribbling them on animal skins or papyrus, the vast majority of Judeans didn't necessarily know about them and couldn’t read them either. Even if the societal intellectuals may have started adopting kashrut, the masses likely hadn’t yet gotten the memo. — What Archaeology Tells Us About the Ancient History of Eating Kosher - Smithsonian Magazine
Mao tse dong and the cultural revolution. Millions starve when farmers were supposed to do their own industry, and city workers grow their own crops. — Metaphyzik
IMHO there is no more problem with one religion more than another…. They are all capable of the worst traits imaginable. — Metaphyzik
i·de·ol·o·gy
/ˌidēˈäləjē,ˌīdēˈäləjē/
noun
1.
a system of ideas and ideals, especially one which forms the basis of economic or political theory and policy.
"the ideology of democracy"
Similar:
beliefs
ideas
ideals
principles
doctrine
creed
credo
teaching
dogma
theory
thesis
tenets
canon(s)
conviction(s)
persuasion
opinions
position
ethics
morals
2.
ARCHAIC
the science of ideas; the study of their origin and nature. — Oxford Languages
That is to say, there is no way you can read that text and not come away with the impetus of it, which is that faithfulness in God is what is necessary. — schopenhauer1
This goes along with the uniquely Israelite spin on a god who protects his people if they maintain their faith in him. — schopenhauer1
You put so much work into your post and I want to honor that. My questions are sincere wonderment, trying to figure out a puzzle about how we judge truth. — Athena
Those men could not have experienced a god in an empirical way because that god is not made manifest on earth. So in want did they have faith? It seems to me they had a very high opinion of themselves, to think they could know god. What evidence of god were they using? — Athena
:chin: Just about everyone had a patron god or goddess and around the world people have done all in their power to please the gods and goddesses. There is nothing unigue about believing the Nile or an irrigation ditch will flood or there will be a good harvest if a god/goddess is pleased and bad things happen when they are displeased. People turned on their leaders when it seemed obvious the gods no longer favored them. I don't understand what you said if you said others didn't have a god's protection. — Athena
Scholars generally attribute the oldest texts some time around the 7th century BCE — schopenhauer1
There are poems and fragments of older texts dating back centuries earlier perhaps as early as the 11th century BC for some of the poems which conceptualize God in highly anthropomorphic, warrior-like ways like song of the sea. Perhaps the texts were completed around the 7th century BC? — BitconnectCarlos
According to Shaye Cohen scribes appear in the second temple period. By scribes he means laymen knowledgeable of the Tanakh. — BitconnectCarlos
Yes the general theme of the Tanakh is obey God, follow his directive, and good will come. And of course the inverse is true too. But this isn't universal as seen in Job and Ecclesiastes.
an hour ago — BitconnectCarlos
And again, this works generally how the God of the Israelites in the Tanakh operates- good is rewarded, evil is punished, and sometimes good people are punished for unclear, but heavenly reasons (Job). — schopenhauer1
Yes that is an ominous change in the lexicon.
Ideology enforcement is what I was ranting about. Having an ideology isn’t in itself bad. It is good actually. Encourages people to think if all goes well. At worst it is imposed on others or forced in society. Theron lies the problem — Metaphyzik
good is rewarded, evil is punished, — schopenhauer1
Sure. So the obvious conclusion is that there is no consistent account of the nature of god as posited.
Now from this we might conclude either that he doesn't exist or that he does and we just have to accept that he is inscrutable.
You get to choose. — Banno
I am just pointing to a common root, the place from whence the idea that faith trumps rationality might issue.
It makes you uncomfortable. It ought. — Banno
I'm just saying you truly have not presented any interesting criticism. — Hanover
I don't.Why would we expect ideological uniformity from over 1000 years of texts? — BitconnectCarlos
I have.Read it and make your own judgments. — BitconnectCarlos
I don't think so. It reads like a patchwork authored by men, not the word of a omniscient being.(God) does reveal certain things within the pages of the Bible. — BitconnectCarlos
Yep. And whereof one cannot speak...God is inscrutable in his entirety. — BitconnectCarlos
(God) does reveal certain things within the pages of the Bible.
— BitconnectCarlos
I don't think so. It reads like a patchwork authored by men, not the word of an omniscient being. — Banno
But even the Pharisees and their intellectual descendants, the Rabbis of the Mishnaic and Talmudic periods would have more-or-less accepted the plain meaning of this text, even if they "flavored" it with various other interpretations, as is the custom with Judaic hermeneutics of the Second Temple period into the Middle Ages and beyond. — schopenhauer1
And we've not mentioned Kierkegaard's take on all this, which is to assert that the Binding was a test of faith and that there was no faith as great as Abraham's because he never questioned God — Hanover
Religious debate doesn't lead to absolute rules. Much is debated and remains debated. Rules are also subject to change.
But you know this, so I don't know why you say otherwise. — Hanover
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