How about an afterlife, pretty much the same as this one, only without the crap, the this and that? Today Nature drives, feels, responds; why should she stop for you tomorrow?

heroism and martyrdom — BitconnectCarlos

Yes, and thereby devaluing this life by making a "leap" into some mirage of "afterlife" (e.g. "72 virgins"). :eyes:

I think and hope it’s a benevolent paradise of bliss, wonder, love etc where you can do basically anything you want with few restrictions.

Come to think of it, Afterlife sounds life keeps continuing after life ceased. Shouldn't it be called "Afterdeath"? :chin:

I hate the 72 virgins crowd as much as anyone, but sometimes one must be willing to lay down one's life especially against totalitarian systems which thrive/perpetuate off the idea that a single person's death is meaningless and futile and makes zero ultimate difference. See Arendt's Eichmann in Jerusalem.

Throughout history and across cultures many many nonbelievers have sacrificed their lives in order to protect their families / communities and/or to oppose various tyrannies. "Belief" in some "afterlife" – or any fact-free, faith-based story – in order to gain a "reward" (or punishment) isn't a necessary motivator and, IMO, more often than not, is only useful for deluding weak minds into throwing away their lives "in the name of (the cause)". Ethically, as a rule, martyrdom isn't an argument (& ends don't justify means – especially those means which undermine or negate their ends). Just my 2 shekels. :victory:

:up:

Philosophically speaking I believe the desire to save the afterlife is more against the notion of philosophy -- living a good life with respect to the facts such that more of us can be happy, or some such thing.

And you're right to note that nonbelievers have sacrificed their life for an idea -- philosophically speaking: maybe we, as a species, could do better. No afterlife imaginaries there, simply the acknowledgement that you'll be over soon and you hope it matters eventually for the people you know.

:up: :up:

Throughout history and across cultures many many nonbelievers have sacrificed their lives in order to protect their families / communities and/or to oppose various tyrannies. "Belief" in some "afterlife" – or any fact-free, faith-based story – in order to gain a "reward" (or punishment) isn't a necessary motivator and, IMO, more often than not, is only useful for deluding weak minds into throwing away their lives "in the name of (the cause)". Ethically, as a rule, martyrdom isn't an argument (& ends don't justify means – especially those means which undermine or negate their ends). Just my 2 shekels. :victory: — 180 Proof

I like your 2 shekels. For me the afterlife is all the life that takes place after mine is over.

:up:

All true. But what of self-sacrifice in an instance where, according to the social reality, it would seem completely futile?

Consider the Judenrat in the Lodz ghetto. This example is drawn from Arendt's work in Eichmann in Jerusalem. You can sign the document to summon the police to round up some of the populace to send them off them on trains to certain death, or you could choose not to sign. But if you don't sign, you'll be hanged the next day and someone else will fill your position who will sign and the group will be rounded up regardless. Your sacrifice will be completely meaningless and make no ultimate difference to the matter. Do we still self-sacrifice here?

All true. But what of self-sacrifice in an instance where, according to the social reality, it would seem completely futile? [ ... ] Do we still self-sacrifice here? — BitconnectCarlos

This depends on the particular persons engaged that "futile" situation. I do not see how "the afterlife" is a primary motivating factor

This depends on the particular persons engaged that "futile" situation. — 180 Proof

I don't see how the particular individual matters much. Historically, he would be a community leader. Do you understand the scenario?

Do you understand the scenario? — BitconnectCarlos

Yes. Do you? Apparently you don't understand this dispute.

Is the man allowed to sign the document to order the deportation process given the reasonable assumption that it would happen regardless of his signature?

What are your thoughts on self-sacrifice in this instance? The refusal to sign could be reasonably inferred to make no essential, utilitarian difference.

What are your thoughts on self-sacrifice in this instance? — BitconnectCarlos

:roll: This ...

I do not see how "the afterlife" is a primary motivating factor. — 180 Proof