So, it isn't enough to garbage the moon and planets. We have to garbage the Sun too? — Michael Ossipoff
Does the Sun care what gets tossed into it? — darthbarracuda
Isn't this just a case of incinerating the garbage? Why don't we load all the nuclear weapons into that incinerator as well? — Metaphysician Undercover
But the motivation for the experiment is that little is known about the corona in particular, and about the Sun in general. And, if little is known, that means that things can't be predicted or assured with certainty. — Michael Ossipoff
I heard some discussion about the ambitions for this probe. Apparently the corona (not a beer) is much hotter than the surface of the sun itself, and scientists do not know exactly why this is the case. They hope to gather some information. — Metaphysician
But, even just on principle, given that the Sun is the origin of the Earth and us, and given that, in our sky every day, it's the energy-source for Earth's life, isn't there something offensive and objectionable about throwing our garbage into it, or even doing investigative flybys through the solar corona? — Michael Ossipoff
The sun is not the origin of Earth or other planets. They're all from a different star, which is what it means to be a second generation system. — noAxioms
The probe falling into the sun puts a bit of heavy metals into it to trivially add to the collection it already has. I can't see how this is offensive no matter the spin put on it.
I'm not saying that the probe is going to result in an "Oops!!" moment. It probably won't. But is "probably" good enough, when we're talking about the source of energy for Earth's life? — Michael Ossipoff
Maybe, even probably, the Sun will be unaffected. You could argue that all of the solar-system's matter originated in the Sun anyway, and that the probe is quite small in comparison to the sun.
But the motivation for the experiment is that little is known about the corona in particular, and about the Sun in general. And, if little is known, that means that things can't be predicted or assured with certainty.
The Sun probably won't be affected? Sure. But is probably good enough, when it involves the energy-source on which Earth's life depends? — Michael Ossipoff
I'm saying that it's objectionable and offensive as a matter of principle — Michael Ossipoff
But, even just on principle, given that the Sun is the origin of the Earth and us, and given that, in our sky every day, it's the energy-source for Earth's life, isn't there something offensive and objectionable about throwing our garbage into it, or even doing investigative flybys through the solar corona? — Michael Ossipoff
Sorry but this is trivial, comparable to concern about scratching yourself in the presence of oxygen-producing green plants since it will contaminate them with dead skin cells. :) — Joseph
Is there anything that's inviolable? — Michael Ossipoff
"But, even just on principle, given that the Sun is the origin of the Earth and us, and given that, in our sky every day, it's the energy-source for Earth's life, isn't there something offensive and objectionable about throwing our garbage into it, or even doing investigative flybys through the solar corona?" — Michael Ossipoff
I don't see why we should view the Sun as sacred. — darthbarracuda
We aren't throwing garbage into it, we are putting a satellite into orbit that will eventually be consumed by the Sun.
Perhaps this satellite will return useful data that will save lives.
Who knows. I highly doubt NASA is just half-assing it and assuming the probe isn't going to screw something up with the Sun.
It's like putting flags on the top of the Himalayas. Long after humanity has gone, the flags will flap away and the mountains will stand on the own once more. If you think about it, the elements used to create the probe came from stellar explosions in the past. The elements are just being returned back to where they came from in some sense.
"Is there anything that's inviolable?" — Michael Ossipoff
The basis of your objection to the probe is that the sun is sacred?
I've already answered that:
— Hanover
"I don't see why we should view the Sun as sacred." — darthbarracuda
It's just the energy-source, immediate physical origin, and immediate physical reason for for Earth's life. — Michael Ossipoff
I'm sure the sun encounters far greater threats from random debris on a day to day basis (Icarus, for instance) without us having to worry about a tiny chunk of steel getting too close to it. — Hanover
↪Michael Ossipoff
I don't think you realize how absolutely massive and hot the sun is compared to anything we could lob into it. Even if it was done for the specific purpose of destroying it, I don't think humanity could muster more than a petty insult to the sun. — Joseph
I'm not saying that the probe is going to result in an "Oops!!" moment. It probably won't. But is "probably" good enough, when we're talking about the source of energy for Earth's life? — Michael Ossipoff
Maybe, even probably, the Sun will be unaffected. You could argue that all of the solar-system's matter originated in the Sun anyway, and that the probe is quite small in comparison to the sun.
But the motivation for the experiment is that little is known about the corona in particular, and about the Sun in general. And, if little is known, that means that things can't be predicted or assured with certainty.
The Sun probably won't be affected? Sure. But is probably good enough, when it involves the energy-source on which Earth's life depends? — Michael Ossipoff
I'm saying that it's objectionable and offensive as a matter of principle. — Michael Ossipoff
But, even just on principle, given that the Sun is the origin of the Earth and us, and given that, in our sky every day, it's the energy-source for Earth's life, isn't there something offensive and objectionable about throwing our garbage into it, or even doing investigative flybys through the solar corona? — Michael Ossipoff
Hanover's definition of "stupid":
"Not in agreement with Hanover.' — Michael Ossipoff
This discussion has devolved to repetition, and nothing other than repetition.
I suggest that we've all had our say.
Hasn't this discussion run its course and reached its conclusion? — Michael Ossipoff
Hello? We didn't build and send those things.
Our role needn't extend to intrusively experiments on the Earth's energy source. — Michael Ossipoff
Hanover's definition of "stupid":
"Not in agreement with Hanover.' — Michael Ossipoff
.How is that a defensible position?
.It's not like we're spitting on God or something.
.I get that what we say here is irrelevant in that no one would actually listen to us when deciding what to do
., but I can think of few worse reasons to call off the sun probe than because it's a cosmic insult.
.Let's suppose Trump declared tomorrow there was not to be a sun probe because sun area is inviolable by man. That'd go down as a really stupid decision, right?
.This discussion has devolved to repetition, and nothing other than repetition.
.
I suggest that we've all had our say.
.
Hasn't this discussion run its course and reached its conclusion? — Michael Ossipoff
.You think you can just tell people you've heard enough and they'll be quiet for you? I think the conversation will organically end, like when people are tired of talking about it, not when someone else decides it's quiet time.
It's just the energy-source, immediate physical origin, and immediate physical reason for for Earth's life. — Michael Ossipoff
While the sun IS the source for solar energy, it isn't the immediate physical origin of the earth. ↪noAxioms
already pointed this out. The disk of dust that spawned our system spawned the sun along with the planets. — Bitter Crank
Eventually the sun will take back everything it allegedly gave us.
Towards the effective end of its yellow*** star life, it will enlarge beyond the orbit of earth -- which won't be vaporized, but will be rather thoroughly fried. Eventually the sun will collapse into a dwarf and earth will be a ball of rock which won't host life again (not enough time, not enough energy, no water, no more water-bearing bodies falling on it in huge numbers, etc.)
The sun is entirely capable of dealing with anything we send its way.
If you want to worry about a long term problem, worry about plastics. The billions of tons of plastic that we let loose into the environment are practically immortal. The plastic out of which your oatmeal bowl was made may not be in the shape of a bowl by the time the sun overtakes the earth and burns up all the crap once and for all time, but all of it will be in little pieces somewhere (unless it gets incinerated first by our efforts).
I just don't think it's necessary to garbage the sun too. — Michael Ossipoff
If you want to worry about a long term problem, worry about plastics. — Bitter Crank
"I just don't think it's necessary to garbage the sun too". — Michael Ossipoff
Doing anything that would detract from the sun's character is beyond our operational capabilities. — Bitter Crank
↪Michael Ossipoff
if the sun is the source of the matter of earth, then something from earth falling into the sun is only solar matter heading back whence it came. — Bitter Crank
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