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I guess republicans are fascists. — Lionino

Not really, those are your words.
For one, some ≠ all.
For another, they're squabbling over ehh "taboo words". :zip: :lol:

Resolution 1 – DO PASS – Resolution Supporting our Republic vs. Democracy

WHEREAS a republic and a democracy are two distinct forms of government; and

WHEREAS the United States Constitution, Article IV, Section 4 guarantees to every
state "a republican form of government" and we pledge allegiance to our country's flag
“and to the Republic for which it stands;” and

WHEREAS John Adams stated "Democracy...while it lasts is more bloody than either
aristocracy or monarchy. Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes,
exhausts, and murders itself. There is never a democracy that did not commit suicide;”
and

WHEREAS the Republican Party is the party of limited, Constitutional government, and
the Democratic Party promotes progressivism and socialism; and

WHEREAS every time the word "democracy" is used favorably it serves to promote the
principles of the Democratic Party, the principles of which we ardently oppose;

THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED that the Washington State Republican Party, in
convention assembled, acknowledges that our nation is intended to be a republic, not a
democracy; and

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that we encourage Republicans to substitute the words
"republic" and "republicanism" where previously they have used the word "democracy;"
and

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that we support legislation that preserves the republican
nature of our government institutions and oppose legislation which makes our nation
more "democratic" in nature, and that, while we favor and encourage liberty in all
nations, we oppose all efforts to use American military might to spread "democracy"
around the world. — 2024 WSRP Resolutions Page 2 of 15

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John Adams is quoted but his position if far more subtle than this naked attempt at a power grab.

In John Adams' "Thoughts on Government" he asks:

As good government, is an empire of laws, how shall your laws be made?

and answers by:

... a few of the most wise and good.

That is, not by a political party but by those who are wise and good,.

He goes on to say:

The principal difficulty lies, and the greatest care should be employed in constituting this Representative Assembly. It should be in miniature, an exact portrait of the people at large. It should think, feel, reason, and act like them. That it may be the interest of this Assembly to do strict justice at all times, it should be an equal representation, or in other words equal interest among the people should have equal interest in it.

If the people at large favor policies that are progressive and socialists then the Republicans are not representatives of the people.

Adams also says:

Of Republics, there is an inexhaustable variety, because the possible combinations of the powers of society, are capable of innumerable variations.

As the greatest leader of the Republican Party said, this nation is a government:

of the people, by the people, for the people.

It is a mixed regime with elements of aristocracy and democracy.

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In a letter to John Taylor he says:

Democracy, nevertheless must not be disgraced. Democracy must not be despised. Democracy must be respected. Democracy must be honoured. Democracy must be cherished. Democracy must be an essential, an integral part of the Souvereignty, and have a controul over the whole Government, or moral Liberty cannot exist, or any other Liberty. I have been always grieved, by the gross abuses of this respectable Word. One Party speaks of it as the most amiable, venerable, indeed as the sole object of their Adoration: the other as the Sole object of their scorn, abhorrence and Execration. Neither Party, in my Opinion, know what they Say. Some of them care not what they say, provided they can accomplish their own Selfish Purposes. These ought not to be forgiven.

The two parties at that time were the Federalists and the Democratic-Republicans. He was a member of the Federalists. This would raise doubts for the those who wrote and supported the Republican resolution @jorndoe cited above, if only they knew where Adams stood.


According to his wife he was an avid reader of Plato, but I think his views on democracy were shaped in part by his own experience and observations regarding human nature. A Democratic republic differs from the Athenian democracy in important ways.

"Trump leads Biden among young people
Young voters are part of Democrats’ natural base of support, but Biden is actually 11 percentage points behind Trump among young voters 18-34 in a head-to-head match in a CNN poll conducted by SSRS and released over the weekend."
https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/29/politics/biden-young-voters-what-matters/index.html

I always suspected young peoples' commitment to fighting climate change was paper thin. Drill, baby, drill.

Any surveys of polling trends (with explicit margins of error) which sample only Likely Voters in 7 swing states (decided by 3 or less points in 2020) re: Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Nevada, North Carolina, Pennsylvania & Wisconsin? This won't be any more predictive six months out from the general election than daily/weekly snapshot cllickbait polls but rather would be more relevantly diagnostic of the respective campaigns' / parties' persistent weaknesses with respect to the electorate. :chin:

@Relativist

If everything’s honest, I’ll gladly accept the results. I don’t change on that,” Mr. Trump said, according to The Journal Sentinel. “If it’s not, you have to fight for the right of the country.”

In an interview with Time magazine published on Tuesday, he also dismissed questions about political violence in November by suggesting that his victory was inevitable.

When pressed about what might happen should he lose, he said, “if we don’t win, you know, it depends. It always depends on the fairness of an election.”

Mr. Trump’s insistent and fraudulent claims that the 2020 election was unfair were at the heart of his efforts to overturn his loss to President Biden, and to the violent storming of the Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021, by a mob of supporters who believed his claims. Mr. Trump now faces dozens of felony charges in connection with those events.

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/05/02/us/biden-trump-campaign

So when he loses a clean election again (2020 was probably the most clean and fair in US history), and comes up with some nonsense reason to reject it — which is a given — despite being able to predict this 6 months out, his supporters will be right there with him and the media will be shocked at the fact that he won’t concede the loss.

It’s likely that he’ll make something up even if he wins, as he did in 2016 regarding the popular vote.

2020 was probably the most clean and fair in US history) — Mikie

:death:

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So a complete ignoramus about this too. I’m shocked. :scream:

Trump’s own officials say 2020 was America’s most secure election in history

You've used Vox as a source. Its probably better you have me on Ignore in this case.

Excellent rebuttal. Oh wait, it isn't. As a European this idiotic tribalism to discount sources is really funny.

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Vox isn't a source. — Lionino

Q.e.d.

The rest is a red herring.

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Mexico's elections are far securer — Lionino

No.

The November 3rd election was the most secure in American history. Right now, across the country, election officials are reviewing and double checking the entire election process prior to finalizing the result.

“When states have close elections, many will recount ballots. All of the states with close results in the 2020 presidential race have paper records of each vote, allowing the ability to go back and count each ballot if necessary. This is an added benefit for security and resilience. This process allows for the identification and correction of any mistakes or errors. There is no evidence that any voting system deleted or lost votes, changed votes, or was in any way compromised.

“Other security measures like pre-election testing, state certification of voting equipment, and the U.S. Election Assistance Commission’s (EAC) certification of voting equipment help to build additional confidence in the voting systems used in 2020.

“While we know there are many unfounded claims and opportunities for misinformation about the process of our elections, we can assure you we have the utmost confidence in the security and integrity of our elections, and you should too. When you have questions, turn to elections officials as trusted voices as they administer elections.”

https://www.cisa.gov/news-events/news/joint-statement-elections-infrastructure-government-coordinating-council-election

They were Trump officials.

Also:

Trump Panel Finds No Voter Fraud

Court filings show that in spite of the president’s claim that millions of people voted illegally, his recently disbanded commission found no evidence of voter fraud.

https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/articles/2018-01-10/trump-commision-on-election-integrity-found-no-evidence-of-voter-fraud

Back in 2018, when he also claimed there was widespread voter fraud. Which everyone with a brain cell knows is bullshit anyway.

The incidence of voter fraud has been studied numerous times. The consensus from credible research and investigation is that the rate of illegal voting is extremely rare, and the incidence of certain types of fraud – such as impersonating another voter – is virtually nonexistent.

https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/resources-voter-fraud-claims

Which is why Trump has lost literally every court case on this. It’s conjured out of thin air to excuse his loss, which he was telegraphing months in advance.

Again, quite shocking that one of our resident clowns is a believer in such stupidity. The general level of a mind that supports Trump, though…

discount sources is really funny — Benkei

Right. Just lazy, boring bullshit from people who feel obligated to talk when they both know nothing about the subject and have nothing interesting to contribute. But it makes them feel like they’re participating.

You believe the election was actually stolen? Like Sidney Powell and Mike Lindell? Or in a Tucker Carlson way?

Go drink your soy latte.

I laughed. A mixture of soy and political dopamine fuels the rage. One thing you won’t find is any principle.

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where thousands of tourists and dead people voted — Lionino

:rofl:

Not a shred of evidence; not one reference. But yeah, Vox is the problem.

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obvious stuff — Lionino

Obvious on 4Chan; delusional in the real world.

Arizona Attorney General Mark Brnovich said Monday his investigators found just one dead voter after thoroughly reviewing findings from a partisan review of the 2020 election that alleged 282 ballots were cast in the name of someone who had died.

https://apnews.com/article/elections-arizona-donald-trump-phoenix-government-and-politics-e11fb4726ee010e4d031a63acff939cd

Same is true in Georgia, Michigan, and nationally. Voter fraud — of any kind — is extremely rare. Despite your idiotic claims.

“Just Google it, it’s so obvious” = not a shred of evidence, not one reference.

You’re embarrassing.

I have genuinely no clue how you could possibly grok this from my rejecting an actual source, based on its track record of being a steaming pile of shit with no import for anyone but its captured audience - has anything to do with 'tribalism'.
It used to present some good journalism. It no longer does.

Your response just tells me how tribal you must be at-base.

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Voter fraud that is caught is extremely rare, which is a given in your failed State. — Lionino

:rofl:

Oh I see. So there’s “obvious” widespread voter fraud— but no evidence of it because it’s never caught, despite Trump and his idiotic followers like you screaming about fraud for years and more intense scrutiny on voting than ever before. But we know there is, because Trump says so. So it’s obvious. No need for evidence — we can “feel” it.

No surprise you hold yet another stupid, stupid position. And why you still cannot provide one shred of evidence. Are you a Creationist as well?

But when it came to my attention that your schooling systems teaches sex fluidity before Europe not being a country and writing skills, it is unshocking that you graduated. The perfect cosmopolitan drone to send taxes to Israel and eat grass. — Lionino

:chin: This was almost coherent. Almost.

Keep taking your English-as-second-language courses though. You’re doing great. :up:

Are you saying Biden won the election because of voter fraud? That Trump was the rightful winner?

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