However, atheism couldn't possibly gain you any divine favor, and therefore it is irrational to hold atheist beliefs. — Scarecow
Your reasons make me ask, "Is being a theist about what I can get for myself?" — Philosophim
Another complaint, is that you seem to believe that doing anything non-egoistically is irrational. — Bob Ross
It is like the reproductors of this strawman [...] admit that only ethical egotism is possible, one justified by wanting to go to heaven (or not be reborn as a pig) and the other justified by hedonism. It says more about the accuser than the accused. — Lionino
one of the most bizarre aspects about the pascals wager family of arguments — flannel jesus
Practicing a religion could gain you nothing, and could be seen as a waste of every moment spent practicing it.Practicing a religion could gain you divine favor in the afterlife. — Scarecow
It could if gods exist that reward us for reasons other than practicing any, or a particular, religion.However, atheism couldn't possibly gain you any divine favor, — Scarecow
Atheists don’t need “beliefs” in the religious sense. Scientifically, there is no evidence for God (unless you believed eyewitness accounts of miraculous physical events maybe). Without evidence, there is nothing to examine, so nothing to conclude. Therefore, it is illogical to conclude there is no God. — Fire Ologist
Whether gods can be demonstrated to exist by some evidence in the future, or an as yet to be identified compelling argument remains open. — Tom Storm
Here's a "rational" example of "how to prove a negative" from a 2020 thread Belief in Nothing ...I don’t think it’s rational to conclude as fact that something does not exist. Don’t know how you prove a negative. — Fire Ologist
I think this proves we can prove a negative.[P]redicates of X entail search parameters for locating X (i.e. whether or not X exists where & when).
E.g. (A) Elephant sitting on your lap ... (B) YHWH created the world in six days ... (C) In 2024 George Bush lives in the White House ... (D) UFOs take-off & land at JFK Airport ... etc
So: absence of evidence entailed by (A/B/C/D) is evidence - entails - absence of (A/B/C/D): search (A) your lap, (B) the geophysics of the earth, (C) who is currently POTUS, and (D) control tower logs, arrival / departure gates & runways at JFK Airport ... — 180 Proof
We can know only that particular deities do not exist but not that 'every conceivable deity' does not exist. To wit:I guess I meant people who “know” there is no god. — Fire Ologist
...insofar as a deity is described without any predicates which entail this deity has caused changes (events) in the world, then there are not any purported facts of the matter to investigate, and such a deity is ontologically indistinguishable from an idea or fiction. — 180 Proof
I think this proves we can prove a negative. — 180 Proof
I'd respond "Okay". Stories and fables exist, but not "YHWH" (except as one of the main characters).How do you respond to those who might argue that the Bible is allegorical and that it contains a 'broader truth' about Yahweh, who does not always conform to the stories, except through fable? — Tom Storm
All that comes to mind at the moment is Paul Tillich's notion that to say either "God exists" or "God doesn't exist" is idolatrous / blasphemous / meaningless (I can't remember which) or Quentin Meillassoux's "inexistent God" that is yet to come to be (or something like that) à la waiting for godot... :smirk:Out of interest are there any other frames you know of a believer might use to preserve belief in Yahweh without literalist scripture?
[P]redicates of X entail search parameters for locating X (i.e. whether or not X exists where & when). — 180 Proof
so absence of evidence entailed by (A/B/C/D) is evidence - entails - absence of (A/B/C/D — 180 Proof
Well, it may sound ridiculous, but who's to say that a god wouldn't punish the theists? — Scarecow
You took the words right out of my mouth.I fail to see exactly what it is you are failing to see. — Pantagruel
Except things that quite obviously made up. Even if it's not proved 100% beyond doubt, the preponderance of evidence precludes paying homage or tithes to, making sacrifices for or obeying the rules of an improbability.It just means that, as a thinking being, there is no reason to conclude the Non-existence of anything. — Fire Ologist
An atheist doesn't necessarily claim (though some may) that no kind of supernatural entity could possibly exist, or that no entity which might seem like a deity to humans could possibly exist. Most of us simply reject the god-forms that have so far been held up to worship by human agencies of one kind or another. — Vera Mont
...atheism couldn't possibly gain you any divine favor, and therefore it is irrational to hold atheist beliefs. — Scarecow
An atheist doesn't necessarily claim (though some may) that no kind of supernatural entity could possibly exist — Vera Mont
It's perfectly rational to trace both the provenance of a deity-figure and its mythology to a human culture, human attitudes and concerns, human ideas and human interests. — Vera Mont
Or why was it God himself becoming a man, living poor and being killed, so that he could rise again? Why is the incarnation leading to poverty and bloody death needed?
And if God was here, walking the earth to found a church, why did he not write one word down, not one written word by Jesus, to found a 2000 plus year old institution? — Fire Ologist
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