I don't agree with you, it seems you lack the intellect that others don't to even make a valid contribution to this.

For example, what about the following is not an emotional response? Wanting a game of cards to work so you use human intervention.

I don't agree with you — Barkon

That was always a given.

it seems you lack the intellect that others don't to even make a valid contribution to this. — Barkon

Another side order of word salad.

Wanting a game of cards to work so you use human intervention. — Barkon

Pragmatic; not mystical in the least degree.

well if that's word salad to you others of the less intellectual of this obviously-perfect world feel the need to make a statement in disagreement with me again, try not to base it on promiscuity of history of like-minded people, because that would obviously be a foolish debate, and I'd probably ignore you.

My words have made a good imprint on this forum, I have set a good example. I'm sure they got across, beyond whatever mad, criminal delusion you're having...

it seems you lack the intellect that others don't to even make a valid contribution to this. — Barkon

If anyone can parse the sentences above or below

well if that's word salad to you others of the less intellectual of this obviously-perfect world feel the need to make a statement in disagreement with me again, try not to base it on promiscuity of history of like-minded people, because that would obviously be a foolish debate, and I'd probably ignore you. — Barkon

they're more than welcome to it.

That right? All the time the majority of the people believed in God, none of them killed any other? — Vera Mont

In the Netherlands today they are allowing a healthy woman to euthanize herself because is depressed. Personal autonomy trumps all.

So, no Christians or Muslims or Jews killed anyone, ever.

In the Netherlands today they are allowing a healthy woman to euthanize herself because is depressed. — BitconnectCarlos

But all the time the majority of the people believed in God, nobody committed suicide?
Or if they tried, did some god-fearing busy-body stop them and lock them up in an institution to suffer until god was ready to take them?
I knew of one such woman, institutionalized for years, making desperate attempts to die and being stopped each time, until she finally succeeded by stuffing her bed-sheet down her throat until she choked to death.
But nobody allowed her to euthanize herself, because life - as long as it's not the enemy's or an apostate's or a heretics, or a pagan's or criminal's or a beggar's - even the most wretched life, is sacred.
Can't fault the logic!

I believe that faith is a deterrent against suicide.

But maybe it's all wrong and it should be ignored and that in reality the idea that human life has value is really just a fiction or to be decided purely by the individual. So if you feel depressed or in pain why not commit suicide to stop it? It would be super effective. Who's to say human life is worth more than pigs or insects? Is that the type of society you'd like to live in?

But maybe it's all wrong and it should be ignored and that in reality the idea that human life has value is really just a fiction — BitconnectCarlos

It surely seems so, if the behaviour of people who profess a religion is anything to go by.

I believe that faith is a deterrent against suicide. — BitconnectCarlos

How does faith deter anything let alone suicide?

Faith is an important belief.

through fear

"Fear" of what? :smirk:

And how does "an important belief" deter ... suicide?

through providing a sense of purpose and empowerment. fear can work too.

Nonsense. Martyrs usually possess an overpowering "sense of purpose" which allows (causes) them to annihilate themselves (and often others too) "in the name of" their tribal / sectarian faiths.

"Fear" of what? — 180 Proof

Damnation by the god doing themselves in for selfish reasons; for escaping the nastiness he had planned for them.

Martyrs usually possess an overpowering "sense of purpose" which allows (causes) them annihilate themselves (and often others too) "in the name of" their tribal / sectarian faiths. — 180 Proof

I don't think Martyrs consider themselves suicides so much as warriors in the cause, whom their deity is calling to himself.

The distinction is clear enough to the faithful.

And how does "an important belief" deter ... suicide? — 180 Proof

Do I look like your Sunday school teacher? Do you want me to assign you reading? I'd wash your mouth out with soap before anything. No need to bring up martyrdom here.

No need to bring up martyrdom here — BitconnectCarlos

Or pogroms, or crusades, or conquests or inquisitions, or the wars between Protestant and Catholic monarchs, or capital punishment.... Of course not. Suicide for selfish reasons is the only issue regarding the sanctity of life.

No need to bring up martyrdom here. — BitconnectCarlos

Clearly your "faith" has martyred your honesty and intelligence.

https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/902594

Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces.

@180 Proof

Point taken. I'll remember not to cast anymore pearls before you, @BitconnectCarlos.

The first quote is clear, the second however is full of poorly formed sentences — missing subjects, clauses fused together, etc.

Ah yes, clear. Well, I get the gist, anyway.

"it seems you lack the intellect that others don't to even make a valid contribution to this."
it-subject seems-verb [you lack the intellect that others don't to even make a valid contribution to this]-object
you-subject lack-verb [the intellect that others don't to even make a valid contribution to this]-object
the intellect that others don't to even make a valid contribution to this (others don't lack the intelligence, the purpose of the intelligence is to make a valid contribution to this).

:up:

The second one is undeciphrable however.

Kudos for taking the trouble; welcome to the rewards.

I believe that faith is a deterrent against suicide.
— BitconnectCarlos
How does faith deter anything let alone suicide? — 180 Proof

This is part of the thesis of Durkheim's book Suicide. It has been supported by academic studies, including this one which concludes, among other things that "external religiosity" - participation, in other words - statistically does have a prophylactic effect on suicidal ideation.

Okay, summarize the relevant part of Durkheim's thesis that accounts for (or explains away) this observation:

https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/902702

I just spelled out the positive argument from Durkheim plus the relevant modern supporting evidence. I don't see how what I supplied requires any additional validation or how anything else that was said contradicts it.

:ok: I must've missed all that ...

Can be this, can be that... are not valid reasons for a loving god to torture the innocent. — Vera Mont

You've inserted several bits of fact-specific information in your objection that don't exist in the claim.

Much pain is beneficial. End of.

Rapid growth of bones may cause pain, but it's not the pain that causes growth. — Vera Mont

This is prevarication. The pain is required for the growth to accrue. Given we are pain-perceiving creatures, anyhow. So, either hte position is God imbued us with Pain, and sometimes that's a good thing (it is one way to know we are progressing physically, for instance, or to avoid otherwise deathly scenarios such as high or low temperature exposure) or it is that Pain is a moral wrong, in and of itself.

Why would you not assent to the view that pains can be arbitrary or not?

God tells us life is sacred. Remove God and life can lose its sanctity quickly. — BitconnectCarlos

Yes. Life isn't sacred. Sacred is an invented concept that applies to nothing without a mind apprehending that invented concept and applying it, to assuage some existential gripes.

Your premise is absurd and unsupported, even if it turns out true. Such is the way with religious thinking. Nonsense.

Next to nothing -- only that it is inevitable. Could be a good thing, could be a bad thing, could be neutral. [uAccordingly,[/u] we generally leave those decisions to a power beyond ourselves. — BitconnectCarlos

It is quite clear that this is a complete non sequitur. Even more so considering the(only) underlined direction you've taken it. This is the exact lapse in reason that leads to the utter insanity of apologetics.

It is quite clear that this is a complete non sequitur. — AmadeusD

So you think life and death decisions re: human life should be made lightly (i.e. that it is an unserious matter)? It's not like it's sacred. Who's to say humans are worth more than cockroaches? This is where your worldview leads you.