Did you look at https://www.anonymousforthevoiceless.org/kill-counter and https://inequality.org/facts/global-inequality ? We slaughter more sentient organisms than ever before. Global inequality keeps growing. The rich get richer and the poor die out. — Truth Seeker
Come on, people around the world are very involved with saving those suffering from famine and war. — Athena
If they were so generous from the beginning they wouldn't get to be billionaires in the first place. — Truth Seeker
To stay on topic you might pick a moment in history when animals were slaughtered and rewrite that history, telling us how the world would be better if our past had been better. We can do a lot with a discussion like that. :grin: — Athena
The case against Israel has just collapsed
Sat, 18 May 2024 at 1:30 pm GMT-6·3-min read
People gather in Parliament Square ahead of a pro-Palestine march
People gather in Parliament Square ahead of a pro-Palestine march
By rights, this should be the moment that the humanitarian case against Israel’s campaign in Gaza goes into terminal collapse. From now on, there can be no equivocation. Those who persist in opposing the war based on the number of civilian casualties are either ignorant or arguing in bad faith. Or both.
Earlier this month, the United Nations halved its assessment of the numbers of women and children killed in Gaza. Then: 9,500 women and 14,500 children dead. Now: 4,959 women and 7,797 children. In a further seven months’ time, perhaps another few thousand will be resurrected.
A moment’s thought reveals that it is impossible to quickly produce reliable figures. People might be missing but, in the chaos of war, how do the authorities know they haven’t fled, gone into hiding, or died of natural causes? Casualties may be buried under collapsed buildings, vapourised, burnt, or so disfigured that it would take complex forensic analysis to identify them. That is why it took months for Israeli investigators to arrive at a final figure for the victims of October 7, with some remaining unaccounted for.
With war raging, this kind of detailed work is impossible. Yet for months, the UN has trusted figures produced by the same savages who butchered poor Shani Louk and drank chilled water from an Israeli fridge while watching a dying young boy comforting his little brother who was missing an eye. At long last, it has taken a first step towards sanity. But it continues to rely on figures from Hamas as a touch-point.
Do those sanctimonious UN officials not realise how ridiculous they look? Have they forgotten how war works? Two decades after our invasion of Iraq, death tolls remain intensely disputed, ranging enormously from 100,000 to 600,000. Yet we’re expected to believe that Hamas, as it squats underground with its Jewish sex slaves, has the professionalism to provide statistics within hours, reliable to the single digit.
Statisticians have debunked the data. Yet the narrative remains unchanged, even by President Biden. Clearly, the sheer volume of the footage of suffering civilians – all projected by Hamas, which censors pictures of dead or wounded combatants – has caused us to lose our minds. When we fought in Afghanistan, Syria and Iraq, nobody debated civilian casualties. Yet when it comes to Israel, it’s all anybody talks about. We are being played.
This is why Gazan civilians are barred from the safety of the tunnels, even though the whole population would fit inside them. This is why they do not have a single air raid shelter. Hamas’s leaders have been doing their best to get their people killed on camera, then fabricated the figures. They have been doing so to brainwash the international media, political leaders, celebrities and the protesters on our streets, to believe the lie of Israeli “genocide”. They want Jerusalem to be pressured to stop the war, leaving them to plot the next act of savagery.
Every humane heart must bleed for Gaza. Even a single innocent death is appalling. But unless you are a pacifist, the tragedy of the individual civilian in a warzone – no matter how heartrending – is not what sways the argument. What should do so is the bigger picture. It is the principle of a just war, which always involves civilian casualties. Israel did not choose this conflict any more than Britain chose to fight Nazi Germany. Such is the curse of the world that democracies are sometimes faced with an ugly enemy and the only way to respond is with force. Churchill knew this. So does Israel. Do we?
Those of sound judgment must insist that the emperor has no clothes. The Jewish state is estimated to be killing proportionately fewer civilians than any other democracy in the history of warfare. To argue otherwise is simply wrong. Now let’s talk about destroying jihadism. — Jake Wallis Simons
I agree. We as a species spend much more on weapons than we do on charities. — Truth Seeker
Have you looked at https://inequality.org/facts/wealth-inequality ? I know that some billionaires are generous but most are not. If they were so generous from the beginning they wouldn't get to be billionaires in the first place. — Truth Seeker
If the world was a moral place place there would be no charities, they would not be needed. — Sir2u
Anabaptism (from Neo-Latin anabaptista,[1] from the Greek ἀναβαπτισμός: ἀνά- 're-' and βαπτισμός 'baptism',[1] German: Täufer, earlier also Wiedertäufer)[a] is a Christian movement which traces its origins to the Radical Reformation in the 16th century. Anabaptists believe that baptism is valid only when candidates freely confess their faith in Christ and request to be baptized. Commonly referred to as believer's baptism, it is opposed to baptism of infants, who are not able to make a conscious decision to be baptized. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anabaptism
In the late 1520s Bernard Rothmann became the leader for religious reform in the city of Münster.....
The pamphlets at first denounced Catholicism from a radical Lutheran perspective, but soon started to proclaim that the Bible called for the absolute equality of man in all matters, including the distribution of wealth. The pamphlets, which were distributed throughout northern Germany, called upon the poor of the region to join the citizens of Münster to share the wealth of the town and benefit spiritually from being the elect of Heaven. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernhard_Rothmann
This is not working. We are doing unimaginably better than in the past and can either agree with than or defend what appears to be your notion that great progress has not been made. How could you possibly know most billionaires are not generous? The answer to that question requires how you got that information. How can you know more about "them" than you know about me? — Athena
But how generous are the super-rich, really? Not very, according to Forbes’ research. The members of the 2023 Forbes 400 list have collectively given more than $250 billion to charity, by our count—less than 6% of their combined net worth.
We as a species spend much more on weapons than we do on charities.
— Truth Seeker
If the world was a moral place place there would be no charities, they would not be needed. — Sir2u
How can someone become a billionaire if they have been donating most of their income throughout their life? I have donated a large percentage of my income to charities since I was four years old. How could a human become a millionaire (i.e. have USD 1,000,000 in their bank account and/or own assets of this value) if they donated most of their annual net income, never mind a billionaire? It's impossible. — Truth Seeker
How could you possibly know most billionaires are not generous? The answer to that question requires how you got that information. — Athena
But how generous are the super-rich, really? Not very, according to Forbes’ research. The members of the 2023 Forbes 400 list have collectively given more than $250 billion to charity, by our count—less than 6% of their combined net worth. — Forbes
How can you know more about "them" than you know about me? — Athena
Oh really? and how is that organized? — Athena
In the middle ages some Christian groups were strongly in favor of communism. — Athena
Christian communism was based on the concept of koinonia, which means common or shared life, which was not an economic doctrine but an expression of agape love.[5] It was the voluntary sharing of goods amongst the community.[6] Acts 4:35 records that in the early Christian Church in Jerusalem "[n]o one claimed that any of their possessions was their own, but shared everything in common." The pattern helped the early Christians to survive after the siege of Jerusalem and was taken seriously for several centuries.[7] While it later disappeared from church history, it remained within monasticism[8] and was an important supporting factor in the rise of feudalism. This ideal returned in the 19th century with monasticism revival and the rise of religious movements wanting to revive the early Christian egalitarianism. Because they were accused of atheism due its association with Marxism, they preferred communalism to describe their Christian communism.[9]
Perhaps you are a reincarnated anabaptist?
Anabaptism (from Neo-Latin anabaptista,[1] from the Greek ἀναβαπτισμός: ἀνά- 're-' and βαπτισμός 'baptism',[1] German: Täufer, earlier also Wiedertäufer)[a] is a Christian movement which traces its origins to the Radical Reformation in the 16th century. Anabaptists believe that baptism is valid only when candidates freely confess their faith in Christ and request to be baptized. Commonly referred to as believer's baptism, it is opposed to baptism of infants, who are not able to make a conscious decision to be baptized. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anabaptism
In the late 1520s Bernard Rothmann became the leader for religious reform in the city of Münster.....
The pamphlets at first denounced Catholicism from a radical Lutheran perspective, but soon started to proclaim that the Bible called for the absolute equality of man in all matters, including the distribution of wealth. The pamphlets, which were distributed throughout northern Germany, called upon the poor of the region to join the citizens of Münster to share the wealth of the town and benefit spiritually from being the elect of Heaven. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernhard_Rothmann
From what I have read the attempt to have complete equality became anarchy with people leaving their doors unlocked and people having sex with anyone whenever they pleased. The objection is there isn't even family order and I do not believe the complete lack of social order would be viable. I also do not believe a leader is equal to a follower, a peasant is equal to a scientist. Complete equality is not viable. — Athena
If the world was a moral place place there would be no charities, they would not be needed. — Sir2u
That recent high isn't the result of a slow climb, nor is it due to inflation. In constant dollars, U.S. foreign aid obligations jumped from $56.3 billion in 2021 to $70.4 billion in 2022, the latest year for which final data is available from a federal tracker.Jan 18, 2024
Countries That Receive the Most Foreign Aid From the U.S https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/countries-that-receive-the-most-foreign-aid-from-the-u-s#:~:text=That%20recent%20high%20isn't,available%20from%20a%20federal%20tracker.
WASHINGTON, D.C.—This week, the House Committee on Homeland Security majority, led by Chairman Mark E. Green, MD (R-TN), released a shocking new interim report as part of its ongoing, comprehensive oversight investigation into Department of Homeland Security (DHS) Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas and President Joe Biden’s reckless open-borders policies that have facilitated in the worst border crisis in American history. This report details the immense financial costs of the unprecedented border crisis being borne by American taxpayers, including the costs for health care, shelter, education, and law enforcement, as well as costs forced on private property owners and businesses. According to one estimate, housing and other services just to those who have been released into the United States on Mayorkas’ watch, or entered as known gotaways, could exceed $451 billion. https://homeland.house.gov/2023/11/16/what-they-are-saying-homeland-majoritys-fourth-interim-report-on-the-financial-cost-of-secretary-mayorkas-border-crisis/
The United States' welfare budget totaled $1.101 trillion in fiscal year 2023, or 18% of all federal outlays. Eight different federal agencies run welfare. This analysis pulls information from the agencies to show a combined federal welfare budget. The welfare program listing is shown below.
welfare budget - Federal Safety Net https://www.google.com/search?q=welfare+cost+in+US&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS926US926&oq=welfare+cost+in+US&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIICAEQABgWGB4yCAgCEAAYFhgeMg0IAxAAGIYDGIAEGIoFMg0IBBAAGIYDGIAEGIoFMg0IBRAAGIYDGIAEGIoFMgoIBhAAGIAEGKIEMgoIBxAAGIAEGKIE0gEKMTE0NzVqMGoxNagCCLACAQ&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
It would help to understand what are the rules for increasing wealth? What if charities learned the rules for increasing wealth and by using those rules they became wealthy and could do more? — Athena
I seriously think government needs to take control of something like say the internet or AI and get its revenue that way instead of taxing people. — Athena
The problem is not knowing how to increase wealth, but not knowing how to increase wealth. — Athena
Our taxing system from the past and inappropriate for a high-tech society. — Athena
We are demanding more for everyone because we are accustomed to abundance. — Athena
Please, stop talking to me about rich people being greedy, and talk to me about economics and social organization. — Athena
The big lie/myth is we need to be saved and we are not moral until we are saved. The truth is God was not a loving God until people's bellies were full. Around the world people of all faiths are very caring. The poor peasants are very willing to share a meal and be gracious host to the stranger. At least the geologist I have spoken with say that is so. Hawaiians didn't need Christianity to have beautiful spirits and a good culture. Many cultures put a high value on giving. — Athena
Maybe because we are not interested in finding out anything about you. Give us a clue to where you live or your name and I am sure we could come up with something though. — Sir2u
↪Athena You keep ignoring my points. My points remain true even if you keep ignoring them instead of acknowledging them. — Truth Seeker
But how generous are the super-rich, really? Not very, according to Forbes’ research. The members of the 2023 Forbes 400 list have collectively given more than $250 billion to charity, by our count—less than 6% of their combined net worth.
Maybe that means more is spent on caring for other humans than is spent on military defense. — Athena
Would we like to reduce that military spending by denying military support to our allies? — Athena
Would that be cost effective? — Athena
Not so much when it is over $5,000 in car repairs for a car that in the Bluebook is worth $500. :lol: — Athena
That was disrespectful. Time for me to move on. — Athena
Health and welfare is not charity, it is a state's obligation to its people that pay taxes and healthcare from their wages. — Sir2u
Military spending is different from military aid to other countries, but I would like to see the elimination of both. And they are not my allies either, I am not an American. — Sir2u
That is an opinion. I have dealt with medical personnel who believe Medicaid is charity. The last time I went to the Social Security office the person I had to turn to for information considered Supplemental Security Income to be charity. And these people announce that in such a demeaning manner I want to crawl away and go hide in a hole. — Athena
So if a nation were bombing your country would still disapprove of the US providing weapons for defense? — Athena
What can be done to end the threat of war and the expense of war? — Athena
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But feeding people who go on to have children who will also be dependent on receiving food, increases the problem. We can not keep increasing the human population. We live on a finite planet and need to base our decisions on that. — Athena
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