I just looked up how long wheat can be stored and that is 8 to 10 years. I am not opposed to storing food. — Athena

Did you checkout how much certain countries actually hold in reserve? And most grains can last decades in the correct conditions.

We should certainly use contraceptives to keep our population at an optimum level for the Earth. I am not suggesting that we should be encouraging people to be freeloaders. I am suggesting collective equal ownership and contribution based on ability and receiving based on needs. I know a thirty-year-old autistic man who is still in nappies and is non-speaking. His condition severely limits what he can do. The Nazis would have executed him. I once met someone who believed in the ideology that if you can't defend your life you don't have the right to live. I believe that all living things have a right to life, not just the ones that can defend their lives. Vegan egalitarianism will reduce the amount of suffering, inequality, injustice, and death on Earth. It would be even better if we could genetically engineer all living things to be nonconsumers so that they can exist without consuming any air, water and food. — Truth Seeker

Oh my, I don't think a planet of nonconsumers is a good idea. On the other hand, one has to wonder what kind of human being would exterminate people with disabilities. Would you feel safe living next door to someone like that?

I think that is extremism and the many years of the Reformation were years of extremism. People wanted the best we could achieve, and that made them willing to kill of willing to risk their own lives. Perfectionism is dangerous. How might we avoid that?

Did you checkout how much certain countries actually hold in reserve? And most grains can last decades in the correct conditions. — Sir2u

Yes I read that link and promptly fell asleep. :lol: :cry: I have to use a machine to keep me breathing when I sleep and just this morning with Truth Seeker's prompting I discovered my machine is not working properly. Sorry everyone, I am out of order and not functioning properly.

I believe the link said wheat can be held for 8 years. I really doubt that would be healthy. I want my food fresh. I also see a need for holding food in reserve and with a population the size of China that has to be a huge challenge.

While there is concern for feeding everyone, I want to mention what they tell mothers on an airplane. When the oxygen masks fall put it on yourself so you have the ability to help the child. Self-sacrifice can be a very bad idea when that means being of no use to others.

That makes me think of a common thought exercise used in many college classes. There are 6 people on a life raft with enough provisions for 5. What do you do?

That makes me think of a common thought exercise used in many college classes. There are 6 people on a life raft with enough provisions for 5. What do you do? — Athena

Nothing, I am not there.
BUT, they would only have to redistribute the provisions for six and would probably have to prepare to die a day earlier if not rescued.

I don't think a planet of nonconsumers is a good idea. — Athena

What's wrong with organisms being nonconsumers? Surely, it is better to be able to live without consuming any air, water, food, sunlight, etc.?

what kind of human being would exterminate people with disabilities — Athena

The Nazis killed lots of disabled people. It's very sad but it happened.

Would you feel safe living next door to someone like that? — Athena

No, I would not.

Perfectionism is dangerous. How might we avoid that? — Athena

Cultivating empathy and compassion would help.

↪Athena
I don't think a planet of nonconsumers is a good idea.
— Athena

What's wrong with organisms being nonconsumers? Surely, it is better to be able to live without consuming any air, water, food, sunlight, etc.?

what kind of human being would exterminate people with disabilities
— Athena
The Nazis killed lots of disabled people. It's very sad but it happened.

Would you feel safe living next door to someone like that?
— Athena

No, I would not.

Perfectionism is dangerous. How might we avoid that?
— Athena

Cultivating empathy and compassion would help. — Truth Seeker

I think your replies are full of philosophical potential. I am listening to a professor who is very careful with defining words and as he defines life, if something is not consuming and reproducing it is not life. Processing energy is fundamental to life. If something is not doing that, it is not living.

Your reply to living next door to a killer certainly has philosophical potential.

Would it matter if it were a man or woman who caught a spouse cheating, or if the person killed in a war, or someone who killed another in the process of a robbery?

I really like holding concepts of empathy and compassion counteracting perfectionism and in its extreme killing people to purify society. We might expand on that thought. During the Middle Ages in different places at different times, one religious group killed another believing they were preparing earth for the second coming of Jesus. So your notion can have individual meaning or social meaning. I hope you have something profound to say about the importance of our words as we talk to ourselves and also as we share ideas with others.

Nothing, I am not there.
BUT, they would only have to redistribute the provisions for six and would probably have to prepare to die a day earlier if not rescued. — Sir2u

When I did that exercise, I volunteered to leave the life boat. That response is directly related to the way I was raised. I was the oldest child and if my sister wanted I had and she wanted it, I was supposed to give it to her, because I was older. And if we were offered a piece of cake or cookie, we were to take the smallest one. It become a habit to put others first.

Another student responded in a better way. He got his seat in the life raft because he knew how to get water out of the air. I remember my WWII father believing individuals should make themselves too valuable to kill. He survived the war by being a medic. They are not put on the front line with a gun in their hands and told to walk into enemy fire. What insanity that is!

Would it matter if it were a man or woman who caught a spouse cheating, or if the person killed in a war, or someone who killed another in the process of a robbery? — Athena

That depends on whether we are morally culpable or not. If hard determinism is true, no one is morally culpable and no one deserves any credit or blame for anything.

When I did that exercise, I volunteered to leave the life boat. That response is directly related to the way I was raised. I was the oldest child and if my sister wanted I had and she wanted it, I was supposed to give it to her, because I was older. And if we were offered a piece of cake or cookie, we were to take the smallest one. It become a habit to put others first. — Athena

Like you, I was taught by my parents to be self-sacrificial. I have donated lots of blood, drinking water, food, clothes, money, etc. to save and improve the lives of others. I have volunteered thousands of hours since I was nine years old. If the universe ran according to my wishes, there would be no suffering, inequality, injustice, and death. We would all be equally all-loving, all-knowing, and all-powerful.

I don't think we can change the past but we can change our interpretation of the past. Our wishes might change after a major event causes us to reflect on them.

Our survival depends on how well we work together. Donating our energy, money, and even our blood is vital to a healthy society. Women were socialized to care for everyone, the young, old, and sick without charging for it. Men also give of themselves, such as getting a neighbor's car running without charging for it. This is not only the morally right thing to do, but one of the best ways to increase our happiness is to do something for others. But some people have no understanding of that. As life events change them they may wish they had done things differently.

Back to the OP, I think if there never was Judaism, Christianity, Islam or any other religion that makes God external, making us human beings instead of spiritual beings. What if we all believed we are spiritual beings in a spiritual reality?

I agree that we can't change the past given our current knowledge and technology but it doesn't mean that an all-knowing and all-powerful being can't do it. Of course, I don't know if such beings actually exist. I agree with you about the importance of people co-operating and being altruistic. What do you mean by "we are spiritual beings in a spiritual reality"?