• ToothyMaw
    1.3k
    So I decided to address something that has bothered me ever since the genesis of some of my own mental health problems, and this is the deliberately concise result:

    Mental illnesses, while qualitatively different from physical diseases, are just as deserving of a proportional amount of attention - “proportional” referring to an ideal calculation performed in the knowledge of just how bad any diseases being compared are. I don’t suggest we actually start comparing everything in lurid detail, but rather we should keep some facts about the details of what constitutes different or similar types of suffering in mind when making some basic evaluations - something I believe the US government already does with veterans when determining their compensation for suffering a disability while serving. .

    So, if you believe that physical diseases are any more urgent than mental illnesses, or deserve disproportional priority, consider the following: the lifetime rate of suicide in in individuals with schizophrenia is between 4% and 13%. That is hundreds of thousands of deaths. I don’t know how to figure out exactly how many that would be per year, but it would be a lot. It seems there is a reason that 75% to 90% of schizophrenics smoke cigarettes.

    And that reveals less than you might think about the (often really shitty) experiences of people with psychosis - whose lives are certainly more than just a statistic to be thrown around for the sake of argument. The same goes for people with anxiety, depression, body dysmorphia, eating disorders, etc.

    Furthermore, I posit that dying unintentionally and committing suicide are not really all that different in some ways; that is, if you grant that one’s agency can be severely - if not entirely - deteriorated during, say, a psychotic episode; then you must grant that someone experiencing a psychotic episode is not responsible for their actions, and, also, in all likelihood, what happens to them as a result of these actions.

    In light of this, I see not much of a difference between slipping on ice and hitting one’s head and dying and intentionally shooting oneself in the head because of a deep depression. In fact, I would say that the events and experiences leading up to suicide makes the plight of the suicidal worse than the plight of someone affected by a freak accident - or, even less congruously, someone who is in their right mind that gets themselves killed because they took a risk or made a mistake, especially due to negligence. No one chooses their genetics, or their upbringing, or whether or not they have a chemical imbalance in their brain. But you can choose not to weave through traffic on your motorcycle at high speeds.

    Some of the factors that increase a schizophrenic’s risk of committing suicide is being young, intelligent, well-educated, and having high personal expectations and hopes - and also believing that those expectations and hopes will not be met. When was the last time anyone you know or have heard of ran a successful fundraiser for these valuable people? When has a public figure vowed to combat this obvious, persistent desperation? If they have, I certainly haven’t seen it.

    If you agree with me, then you also ought to agree that mentally-ill people deserve more love than we typically show them, even if being around them is difficult sometimes. If it were your aunt, or uncle, or daughter, or son, you would want people to treat them with dignity and respect - even if they have some limitations, which is something we already do reflexively for those with physical disabilities. So, please consider what it would be like to be this guy.
  • Shawn
    13.2k
    Yes, well I think it really is about genetics. If an illness originates or has a predisposition based of off genes then one can hope that gene therapy becomes the norm in the future. Just my 2 cents.
  • Outlander
    2.1k
    So, please consider what it would be like to be this guy.ToothyMaw

    That guy seems just fine. From all that can be rationally discerned from the interaction. Granted we remain ignorant of any backstory or context, meaning, unless, of course, he has a "flip of a switch" mood disorder and turns into an axe murderer in a moment's notice.

    So, judging as if his testimony is factual and would be supported by an equally intimate observation of whatever actions that led to his current predicament, it would seem in fact any will or desire to perform an action to disrupt or eliminate whatever system or "status quo" that disrupts or restricts the freedoms of those who are peacefully existing is in fact justified. My two cents, at least.
  • ToothyMaw
    1.3k
    That guy seems just fine.Outlander

    I'm confused. I linked the interview because he has some bad negative symptoms, not because he is a bad guy. Negative symptoms are really detrimental to people's happiness; the point is that some people might not have the patience or understanding to deal with him equitably - that is, in the same way they might treat someone with a physical disability.
  • ToothyMaw
    1.3k
    So, judging as if his testimony is factual and would be supported by an equally intimate observation of whatever actions that led to his current predicament, it would seem in fact any will or desire to perform an action to disrupt or eliminate whatever system or "status quo" that disrupts or restricts the freedoms of those who are peacefully existing is in fact justified. My two cents, at least.Outlander

    I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you are trying to say here.
  • Outlander
    2.1k
    the point is that some people might not have the patience or understanding to deal with him equitablyToothyMaw

    The problem is people appoint themselves as if they had any true authority or place to think they have the right to "deal with" let alone judge others. A gear is not a driving force, it is but a necessity. People who think otherwise best learn their place before they discover the truth that they have none other than what is given to them.
  • ToothyMaw
    1.3k
    the point is that some people might not have the patience or understanding to deal with him equitably
    — ToothyMaw

    The problem is people appoint themselves as if they had any true authority or place to think they have the right to "deal with" let alone judge others. A gear is not a driving force, it is but a necessity. People who think otherwise best learn their place before they discover the truth that they have none other than what is given to them.
    Outlander

    Clearly you are determined to cast whatever I say in a bad light. When I say "deal with", I mean "interact with". I think that's obvious. And I don't think treating people equitably and with kindness is the same thing as judging them. Is it really that bad to acknowledge that someone might need a little extra help?

    People who think otherwise best learn their place before they discover the truth that they have none other than what is given to them.Outlander

    I am not sure what this means, but it sounds vaguely threatening. :down:
  • Outlander
    2.1k
    Clearly you are determined to cast whatever I say in a bad light.ToothyMaw

    I actually awake each morning with the sole intention in mind. Out of 8 billion persons each with a chance of a unique position or reality, yours is truly my sole and only focus. How ever did you know. :wink:

    I am not sure what this means, but it sounds vaguely threatening. :down:ToothyMaw

    To you. And that is your right, notwithstanding of or in any relation to actuality.

    "People fear what they don't understand and hate what they can't conquer.”
    ― Andrew Smith

    And so, I, and any possible truth I may bear, will forever remain in a destitute state, something hostile or above all, "morally" "defeated" or "of majority disdain" and of no possible purpose. Not unlike the individual in the video.

    Such is what such is.

    But to the point.

    You are largely correct. Humanity is, writ-large, lacking in the respect and consideration for those who are, whether by artificial and unwarranted judgement, or perhaps intrinsic truth, beneath what is expected or warranted to be. Your post begs a solution, which also seems to determine said solution as compassion and understanding. If this is so, why are you not the first and foremost to lend such?
  • ToothyMaw
    1.3k
    If this is so, why are you not the first and foremost to lend such?Outlander

    You have been vomiting word salad for the last three posts and seem determined not to make any serious contributions to the discussion. I'm only saying that bluntly now but rest assured that I knew you would claim me to be bereft of compassion no matter what I would say. So, I'm saying it now: you aren't engaging with me or the OP at all.

    Your post begs a solution, which also seems to determine said solution as compassion and understanding.Outlander

    And I stand by that. But I also understand that there is a minimum standard for posts on this forum, and you are barely meeting it imo.
  • Outlander
    2.1k
    You have been vomiting word saladToothyMaw

    I've made but two or three concise statements that remain consistent. I'm sorry that personal, if not conflicting opinion or commentary inter laid appears to obscure such to the degree of invoking mental images of "vomit" to you. But again, that is neither here nor there when it comes to philosophic inquiry.

    Let's simplify:

    Post #1: The person seems misunderstood. Perhaps this begs the question that things or judgements are not always justified?

    Your reply: What?

    Post #2: Perhaps people should be less judgemental.

    Your reply: You hate me. You're trying to kill me.

    Post #3: Lol. Anyway I agree with you. People should be more understanding. Shouldn't you lead the example?

    Your reply: You should be banned. (ie. face real physical penalty for expressing a conflicting opinion, hinting at physical retribution ie. violence or harm for disagreeing)

    --

    Yeah. I'll just leave it at "I agree". Mental illness is real. And should be handled appropriately. Before it gets out of hand. This thread has, whether intentionally or otherwise, become a great example of that.
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