No.

But why not? If an alternative candidate would stand he/she is allowed to try to persuade the pledged delegates because they aren't strictly held to vote for Biden.

DNC party rules and, because he is the incumbent president, Biden (team) controls the Dems convention nominating process. Besides, even if the Dems could "force him out" (they cannot), by law the money the Biden-Harris campaign has raised would still belong to his campaign and he could run for reelection as an independent guaranteeing that The Clown wins the election. So as a practical electoral matter it's a disaster if Biden doesn't voluntarily step aside and endorse his replacement.

Ok, so theoreticially possible but practically unlikely.

if Biden doesn't voluntarily step aside and endorse his replacement. — 180 Proof

Yeah, him doing so would be the only possible positive outcome other than taking the chance at him winning, but that feels more far fetched the closer to the election we get.

Do you mean Whitmer for veep or prez? Kamala has a constituency within the party. — fishfry

Yeah a Harris/Whitmer ticket would be more realistic. That being said Harris will more likely go for Shapiro because he's a white man.

That does seem like an out. I thought the delegates were firmly bound, but evidently not. — fishfry

Yep, and the delegates are not very eager to nominate him right now. We'll see if it snowballs into something.

In fact Joe has stated that he's in it to win it, and he has Jill and now Hunter on his side. And he's President of the United States. There's a lot of power in that. — fishfry

Sure, but everybody adamantly says they're in it until they aren't. I think it's too late for Biden to stop the dam from breaking within his own party. Too many different groups from the donors to the representatives to the senators are already saying he should step aside and likely this week (as congress reconvenes) this will lead to a large number of public statements for Joe to step aside. At some point such a situation becomes untenable.

But who knows how he'll react. Is Joe selfish enough to stay in anyways even if it means the total collapse of his party? Perhaps but it's clear his attempts to quiet any dissent through a mix of stubbornness and finally getting out there have been completely unsuccessful so far. A normal politician would've taken drastic action immediately after that debate, doing numerous interviews, town halls, and unscripted events in order to assure people that they can do this. Biden instead went back to hiding for a week and later did a 20 minute interview where he still sounded rambling and delusional, and well we can sort of guess why. I think the video I linked to where he said he will be content with losing to Trump and ending democracy because all that matters to him is his reelection attempt will turn his critics off more.

How big of an imbecile does one have to be to really believe the US President “runs the country”? — Mikie

Preparing the rhetorical environment for "Who cares if the president is a disabled vegetable? There are many people in executive functions besides just the president!!".

AI already surpassed the average person in that it runs on a much more interesting and unpredictable script — the similarity is that both are soulless automatons.

Biden is unequivocally staying in the race, despite the attempted coup against him and his voters.

My guess is that, barring a debilitating health event or worse, if Biden doesn't step aside this week (or next at the latest), then he will be on the ballot again. I believe various state deadlines are coming up later this month for printing ballots, etc so the Democratic Party's "final" decision whether to unite behind Biden is imminent. That's critical – not whether or Biden steps aside – the degree to which the coalitions which make up the Dems coalesce again like they did in 2020 to make the election about opposition to The Neofascist Criminal Clown in Roevember.

Barring a debilitating health event, can we safely conclude the US establishment favors Trump / the Republican Party over Biden?

Is there really any universe in which the events of the last week could transpire if the purpose wasn't expressly for Biden to lose? Is there really any universe in which a senile old man is allowed to hijack the fate of the most powerful country in the world?

Personally, I don't think so.

Conspiracy thinking ain't my thing ...

8July24

Day seven of the American Monarchy (7 AM)

So who would you vote for (if you could / will vote in the 2024 election): (A) the old man who (usually) tells truths despite his stutter or (B) the old swine who only squeels (& farts) lies just to keep breathing?

I think the answer will be: many abstentations, and that this will favour Trump, as his voters are enthusiastic.

It seems clear that Biden can't be forced out of the race - unlike in a parliamentary democracy such as Australia's or Great Britian's, there's no provision for the 'vote of no confidence' of the kind which brought down Boris Johnson. The only two things that can change that is that he changes his mind, or is declared unfit on medical grounds (which seems not altogether impossible.)

Trump is unanimously designated 'the worst US President' by a board of academic historians. If Biden runs and looses, he will be relegated to the place just behind him on that ladder, for having paved the way for the MAGA overthrow of the constitutional order (even despite his policy achievements and accomplishments.)

Parkinson’s Expert Visited the White House Eight Times in Eight Months

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/08/us/politics/parkinsons-expert-white-house.html

Biden’s physician was also a family business associate

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/07/08/biden-physician-oconnor-family-business-00166934

They installed a corrupt vegetable to save us from the figments of their own fever dreams.

No matter who winds up the Democrat's presidential nominee, all that matters now it seems to me is this:

the degree to which the coalitions which make up the Dems coalesce again like they did in 2020 to make the election about opposition to The Neofascist Criminal Clown in Roevember. — 180 Proof

Eh, whether he stays or goes doesn’t matter that much I bet. With Trump as an opponent, people will vote against him. Doesn’t matter what or who that other button is. Maybe it’s a curtain rod. Maybe it’s a can of soup.

With Trump out there, there’s a very good chance Biden wins.

Michigan and Pennsylvania. That’s all you have to focus on, and you win.

:up: :up:

The business establishment wants Trump. They hate environmental regulations.

Some of the founders wanted the presidency to be a committee job. I figure when I vote for president, I'm voting for a team, not just one person. So I have no problem voting for a vegetable over Trump. The executive would still function. It's not an ideal situation, but doable.

Biden's rolling the dice. If he wins, even by a narrow margin, the GOP will suffer the worst trouncing a political party has ever had in American politics. How could anyone lose to this guy??? The GOP would immediately go into circular firing squad mode. If Biden loses, Democrats will hate him and his family and his inner circle with the intensity of a thousand white hot suns. There's no middle ground here. It's either glory or infamy.

538 still has the race a toss-up. Betting odds on Trump are about 55%. They could probably run Biden Weekend-at-Bernies style and still have a 1-in-3 chance to win. It would actually be kind of fun to beat Trump with a braindead Biden.

With Trump out there, there’s a very good chance Biden wins. — Mikie

Fear of a second Trump term and Project 2025 is the only thing keeping the Dems alive at this point. Would've been nice if they just ran some generic 50 year old or somebody that didn't massively turn off voters nationwide.

Biden's rolling the dice. If he wins, even by a narrow margin, the GOP will suffer the worst trouncing a political party has ever had in American politics. How could anyone lose to this guy??? The GOP would immediately go into circular firing squad mode. — RogueAI

Then they'll re-nominate the same guy who lost again 4 years later.

Yeah a Harris/Whitmer ticket would be more realistic. That being said Harris will more likely go for Shapiro because he's a white man. — Mr Bee

Like I say. Shapiros are not in style in this year's Democratic party. Which reminds me that in 2020, the Dems had an excellent black female VP candidate, Val Demings. But she was a cop, and cops were not in style in the Democratic party of 2020. Live by identity politics, die by same

Yep, and the delegates are not very eager to nominate him right now. We'll see if it snowballs into something. — Mr Bee

I looked this up. Biden has 3896 delegates, and everyone else has 43 combined. Biden is the overwhelming choice of Dem primary voters, and that's one of his advantages.

Just found this, which is just one article and doesn't prove anything, but it's still of interest.

Democratic convention delegates say they’re loyal to Biden and balk at other options


Democrats urging President Joe Biden to end his campaign and allow the party to select another nominee before – or during – August’s national convention are unlikely to find allies in the ranks of Chicago-bound delegates, who are increasingly closing ranks around Biden.

In fact now that Biden's dug in, some Dems are coming around. House Speaker Hakeem Jeffries is for Joe. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez came out for Joe today. Senate majority leader Chuck Schumer came out for Joe. And surprisingly Senator John Warner, who the other day said he was gathering a group of anti-Joe Senators, today came out for Joe.

I believe that once Joe said he's staying in, people realize that he's going to be virtually impossible to dislodge. He has the power of the presidency, which is huge. He has Hunter and Jill on his team. And drug and hooker jokes aside, Hunter appears to be a capable ally at the moment. Joe has all those delegates. And the Democrats risk looking very anti-democratic if they swap in a last-minute candidate chosen by the party insiders. Joe looks stronger today than he did a few days ago when everyone thought he was toast.

And a lot of the backstabbers look unseemly, a point I've been making. You love a guy yesterday and knife him in the back today? That says more about the backstabber than it does about Biden. Looking at you, New York Times, Washington Post, Joe Scarborough, etc.

Sure, but everybody adamantly says they're in it until they aren't. I think it's too late for Biden to stop the dam from breaking within his own party. — Mr Bee

I'm on record that the Dems are not going to dislodge him as long as Jill and Hunter want him in. The Dems do not have the stones to impeach him or invoke he 25th amendment. My bet's a long shot, I'll give you that. Joe looks like toast. But what are the Dems really going to do if he refuses to step down?

There's a full-on civil war in the Democratic party. The inevitable result of decisions they took in 2020 and 2024. People were saying Biden was cognitively impaired as early as 2019. The Dems could have avoided this. Now they're stuck.

Too many different groups from the donors to the representatives to the senators are already saying he should step aside and likely this week (as congress reconvenes) this will lead to a large number of public statements for Joe to step aside. At some point such a situation becomes untenable. — Mr Bee

Like I noted, prominent Dems are also stepping up to support him. They realize that panicking right now could well come out worse than just getting behind Biden.

But who knows how he'll react. Is Joe selfish enough to stay in anyways even if it means the total collapse of his party? — Mr Bee

Oh yeah. Biden and his family are out for themselves. The stories about the family corruption are not "right wing propaganda" any more than his cognitive decline was. Biden's for Biden, and his family wants him to have pardon authority as long as possible. That dam might break too, and when it does, the family's going to want Biden in power.

Perhaps but it's clear his attempts to quiet any dissent through a mix of stubbornness and finally getting out there have been completely unsuccessful so far. — Mr Bee

Not so. The tide began to turn today (Monday evening US time as I write). Lot of Dems came out for Biden, even some who'd been against him just a day or two ago.

A normal politician would've taken drastic action immediately after that debate, doing numerous interviews, town halls, and unscripted events in order to assure people that they can do this. — Mr Bee

Of course Biden is incapable of doing any of that. But we started seeing it in 2019! They hid the guy all during the 2020 campaign. People have been talking about Biden's tragic age-related cognitive impairment for years. Media types have admitted they covered it up so as not to help Trump.

Biden has of course done what he can. He called in to Scarborough's program. He's given some teleprompter speeches. It's all he can do.

But that is not the point. The point is: Who is going to dislodge him, and how?

Biden instead went back to hiding for a week and later did a 20 minute interview where he still sounded rambling and delusional, and well we can sort of guess why. I think the video I linked to where he said he will be content with losing to Trump and ending democracy because all that matters to him is his reelection attempt will turn his critics off — Mr Bee

Agreed, of course. But again: Who is going to dislodge him? The parallel's been made with Nixon, when his advisors came to see him and told him it was all over. But he was facing certain impeachment and conviction. What leverage to the Dems have over Biden? A strongly worded letter? They have nothing. Let's see if they'll start impeachment or 25A proceedings. Of course they will not do it.

So it's advantage Biden, no matter how compromised his mental state.

This is the greatest political scandal of our lifetimes. This thing is just getting started. A full-on civil war in the Democratic party just four months from a highly consequential election. Anything can happen.

Perhaps Biden will have that stroke @Wayfarer is hoping for. Something to see, actual Biden supporters hoping for that. End stage Trump Derangement Syndrome. If the Dems had just ignored Trump and had a real primary season, Newsom or Whitmer would be beating DeSantis right now.

at least you've made clear what side you're on — Wayfarer

From a few weeks ago. I was struck by your extreme partisanship back then -- and now you are hoping your own preferred candidate will have a stroke.

What side are YOU on?

Can you not see your own moral corruption brought on by your extreme hatred of one man who was already president for four years and didn't do any of the things you claim he'll now do?

You don't even wish Trump would stroke out. With his diet and lifestyle it could happen. But no. You have worked yourself into such a state of anger and hate that you hope your own guy will have a stroke. And why? Because you are angry at yourself for going along with the lies. You and all the other Dems who are shocked, shocked that Biden's suffering the age-related cognitive impairment that was apparent in 2019. Do you have any self-awareness at all?

Your remarks got to me a few weeks ago. In case you're wondering why I'm addressing you about this.

What side are YOU on? — fishfry

Whatever side represents the rule of law and upholds the constitution. The side which didn’t attempt the overthrow of the Government and the subversion of the election.

I believe Biden has lost the confidence of many in the electorate and that the Democratic party ought to have selected a younger candidate. That said, though, I’ve never believed that Trump ought to have been allowed to run, considering his obvious malfeasance.

Which reminds me that in 2020, the Dems had an excellent black female VP candidate, Val Demings. But she was a cop, and cops were not in style in the Democratic party of 2020. — fishfry

I mean Kamala was a prosecutor. I don't think either were gonna be popular with the Democrat base in 2020 due to the BLM riots, but Biden decided on Harris.

In fact now that Biden's dug in, some Dems are coming around. House Speaker Hakeem Jeffries is for Joe. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez came out for Joe today. Senate majority leader Chuck Schumer came out for Joe. And surprisingly Senator John Warner, who the other day said he was gathering a group of anti-Joe Senators, today came out for Joe. — fishfry

I'll wait until tomorrow since alot of other congressional Dems are kind of staying silent and clearly are not just falling in line like the president wanted. I'm assuming you meant Mark Warner there, and his statements are also very noncommittal. Nobody except one representative came out today against Biden, and my guess is that the dissenters are currently keeping quiet so they can present a united front when they meet later.

From what I can tell the House Dems are planning a meeting in the morning to discuss the matter privately, while the Senate is also doing the same at noon. Whether they'll decide to confront the president and whether any of that will be made public is anyone's guess.

I believe that once Joe said he's staying in, people realize that he's going to be virtually impossible to dislodge. He has the power of the presidency, which is huge. He has Hunter and Jill on his team. And drug and hooker jokes aside, Hunter appears to be a capable ally at the moment. Joe has all those delegates. And the Democrats risk looking very anti-democratic if they swap in a last-minute candidate chosen by the party insiders. Joe looks stronger today than he did a few days ago when everyone thought he was toast. — fishfry

That's Biden's intended play here, but given that nothing he's done in the past week has assured worried Dems about his reelection prospects, and his complete dismissal of the concerns being thrown his way, I think he's only infuriated and emboldened his critics more. He couldn't convince them that he's not senile so now he's trying to say "don't oppose me or else I'll make it ugly for all of us" to get them to fall in line. Could be a sign he really is hopelessly stubborn or it could be a last ditch attempt at keeping the dam from breaking. Whether the Dems speaking tomorrow will act or not will depend on how they read what he said, but it's clear the president is daring them to oppose him.

And a lot of the backstabbers look unseemly, a point I've been making. You love a guy yesterday and knife him in the back today? That says more about the backstabber than it does about Biden. Looking at you, New York Times, Washington Post, Joe Scarborough, etc. — fishfry

Biden isn't at all a beloved figure. That was why he was thrown under the bus so easily. He's doesn't command a cult like following like Trump so it's easy for them to do so. He was nominated in 2020 purely for his perceived electability and now in an election where he seems to be losing that by being down against a convicted felon the Dems have largely soured on him. I mean they'll still vote for him to stop Trump but they have no support for Biden himself.

I'm on record that the Dems are not going to dislodge him as long as Jill and Hunter want him in. The Dems do not have the stones to impeach him or invoke he 25th amendment. My bet's a long shot, I'll give you that. Joe looks like toast. But what are the Dems really going to do if he refuses to step down? — fishfry

What are they gonna do if he stays in? It seems at this point he's dragging the entire party down for his own selfish goals. At this point they might as well try to make it untenable for him and hope he isn't gonna stubbornly let his own party collapse under his hubris.

Like I noted, prominent Dems are also stepping up to support him. They realize that panicking right now could well come out worse than just getting behind Biden. — fishfry

It's kind of a mixed bag at this point. Alot of them have "concerns" as well. May be a civil war situation but who knows, some of the supporters may believe deep down that Biden isn't the right guy for the job. Reportedly you have folks like Don Beyer saying in private that Biden should resign and let Harris be president while openly supporting him for instance.

Not so. The tide began to turn today (Monday evening US time as I write). Lot of Dems came out for Biden, even some who'd been against him just a day or two ago. — fishfry

Like I said, I'll wait until Tuesday to see if Biden has weathered the storm. The critics have been silent until they meet and gather. Here's a Politico article from Monday evening suggesting that things aren't necessarily over.

Of course Biden is incapable of doing any of that. But we started seeing it in 2019! They hid the guy all during the 2020 campaign. People have been talking about Biden's tragic age-related cognitive impairment for years. Media types have admitted they covered it up so as not to help Trump. — fishfry

Yeah I was one of the people who noticed it back then too (comparing it unfavorably to his 2012 debate performance), but it's way worse now. He could at least debate and do a forceful interview in 2020.

Agreed, of course. But again: Who is going to dislodge him? The parallel's been made with Nixon, when his advisors came to see him and told him it was all over. But he was facing certain impeachment and conviction. What leverage to the Dems have over Biden? A strongly worded letter? They have nothing. Let's see if they'll start impeachment or 25A proceedings. Of course they will not do it. — fishfry

Yeah I understand that ultimately it really is on Biden to step aside unless the Dems are brave enough to take stronger measures. The hope I guess is to make the situation as untenable to Biden as possible because clearly he is out of touch with the reality of the situation, and also hope that the supposed good man in Joe will make him realize how destructive his political ambitions are to a party and country that's lost faith in him. Who knows, maybe he will let the party crumble before he steps aside, but even he should realize that he can't win an election if even his team lacks any confidence in him.

You and all the other Dems who are shocked, shocked that Biden's suffering the age-related cognitive impairment that was apparent in 2019. — fishfry

And I don’t believe that for a minute. Biden was quite capable of executing his first term, and did so with distinction.

Whatever side represents the rule of law and upholds the constitution. The side which didn’t attempt the overthrow of the Government and the subversion of the election. — Wayfarer

I ask you to introspect about your sentiments regarding Biden. I'll stipulate that you have your political opinions, which are shared by many and opposed by many. No point in arguing those since as you yourself recently noted, we're not in the Trump thread. I'm more interested in the psychological reaction to Biden, the vicious backstabbing and, in your case, the hope for a terrible physical malady to befall him.

The viciousness toward Biden from his own side -- that's a psychological reaction to years of going along with the lies about his condition. No other explanation fits. Who, honestly, was shocked by his debate performance? I said to myself during the debate, "Biden's reasonably lucid tonight." I actually said that. He was no worse than he's been for months, and actually a little better. He didn't glitch out like at Juneteenth. He didn't wander off like at the G7. He didn't head-butt the Pope. He didn't raise his fist and start insulting people as he frequently did in 2019.

I was literally shocked that so many people were shocked. Biden has been like this for a long time. Dems and the media and those who hate Trump have been lying -- to themselves, mostly -- and covering it all up. And now that it's exploded, are they angry at themselves? No. They're angry at Biden. And you hope he'll stroke out, to save you the cognitive dissonance of your own years of enabling the Democrats' fraud on the American people.

It's something to behold.

I ask you to introspect about your sentiments regarding Biden — fishfry

I only made the remark about medical factors causing Biden to retire, because I think he ought to retire. Like a lot of people, I think the public perception of him being 'too old' is a factor which might cause him to loose. If I were an American elector, and Biden was the candidate, I'd vote for him. I'm just concerned that many others won't, and as I've already said, I believe the re-election of Donald Trump would be an unqualified disaster for the United States and the rest of the world. Nobody's been 'covering anything up' about Biden. He's never been an orator, he often had verbal stumbles and gaffes throughout his career. So what? The Washington Post kept a daily tally of Trump's lies in his first term which topped out at some number around 38,000 (correction, 30,583) so don't talk about 'deception'. Anyway Im not going to discuss it with you, if you can't see Trump's obvious malfeasance then there's obviously no point.

enabling the Democrats' fraud — fishfry

:lol:

"I just need 11,686 votes".....

And let’s not forget the Congressional Oversight Committee which spent, or rather wasted, several years trying to dig dirt on Joe Biden, only to see all their witnesses turn on them on the stand or being charged for lying to the FBI. Nothing, nada, zilch.

Then review The Whitehouse For Sale report which found Trump made $6 million in emoluments from Chinese and Arabian interests while in office.