One can’t understate how bizarre this is getting.

It really is funny. The fascist, Trump worshipping, election denying partisan hack says…”No, u r.” :lol:

"let's get politically organised by not having a weak nominee" equals fascism when you're a trump turd. For all their differences, in the end progressives and collectivists are always better organised when they believe it's necessary.

Edit: which is why the Democrats are still perfectly positioned to fuck up again because they're neither progressive or collectivists but those that are see the Democratic Party ad the only viable ticket at the moment.

I include on that your state collectivism, legal positivism, Keynesianism, activism. Your prevalence for organization is simply the manifestation of the fasces as you engage in politics.

Are the guy that lost his mind and started punching himself in the head in their car on tik tok when Biden announced this? — AmadeusD

I would like to be sent the link of that. Same vibe:

My thoughts on Biden dropping out:

Joe Biden was discarded by the same billionaire class he assiduously served throughout his political career. Barely able to stumble his way through the words on a Teleprompter and not always cognizant of what is happening around him, his billionaire supporters pulled the plug. He was their creature – he has been in federal office for 47 years - from start to finish. He was used as a foil to defeat Bernie Sanders in the 2020 primaries and was anointed as the candidate in 2024 in a Soviet-style primary campaign. The billionaire class will now anoint someone else. Democratic Party voters are stage props in this political farce. Donald Trump, unlike Kamala Harris or any other apparatchik the billionaire class selects as a presidential candidate, has a genuine and committed base, however fascistic.

In Hitler and the Germans, the political philosopher Eric Vogelin dismisses the idea that Hitler — gifted in oratory and political opportunism but poorly educated and vulgar — mesmerized and seduced the German people. The Germans, he writes, supported Hitler and the “grotesque, marginal figures” surrounding him because he embodied the pathologies of a diseased society, one beset by economic collapse and hopelessness. Voegelin defines stupidity as a “loss of reality.” The loss of reality means a “stupid” person cannot “rightly orient his action in the world, in which he lives.” The demagogue, who is always an idiote, is not a freak or social mutation. The demagogue expresses the society’s zeitgeist.

Biden and the Democratic Party are responsible for this zeitgeist. They orchestrated the deindustrialization of the United States, ensuring that 30 million workers lost their jobs in mass layoffs. As I write in America, The Farewell Tour, this assault on the working class created a crisis that forced the ruling elites to devise a new political paradigm. Trumpeted by a compliant media, this paradigm shifted its focus from the common good to race, crime and law and order. Biden was at the epicenter of this paradigm shift. Those undergoing profound economic and political change were told that their suffering stemmed not from rampant militarism and corporate greed but from a threat to national integrity. The old consensus that buttressed New Deal programs and the welfare state was attacked as enabling criminal Black youth, “welfare queens” and other alleged social parasites. This opened the door to a faux populism, begun by Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher, which supposedly championed family values, traditional morality, individual autonomy, law and order, the Christian faith and the return to a mythical past, at least for white Americans. The Democratic Party, especially under Bill Clinton and Biden, became largely indistinguishable from the establishment Republican Party to which it is now allied.

The Democratic Party refuses to accept its responsibility for the capture of democratic institutions by a rapacious oligarchy, the grotesque social inequality, the cruelty of predatory corporations and an unchecked militarism. The Democrats will anoint another amoral politician, probably Harris, to use as a mask for outsized corporate greed, the folly of endless war, the facilitation of genocide and the assault on our most basic civil liberties. The Democrats, tools of Wall Street, gave us Trump, and the 74 million people who voted for him in 2020. They look set to give us Trump again. God help us.

Chris Hedges

Muh Hitler. Muh Germany. Not comparable. If Operation Paperclip hadn't happened, your "country" would be less relevant than Canada. And I don't know who Chris Hedges or Eric Voegelin are, but Chris Hedges' rendition of Voegelin is an idiotic idea. Germany was a diseased society during Weimar with prostitution of all ages and shemale bars. Hitler campaigned exactly against that. How can someone who campaigns against a disease embody the pathologies? It can't, even if Hitler later came to embody different diseases.

Ironically, everything that the "grotesque, marginal" Göbbels said about Burgerland 100 years ago still applies today, and the entire planet would agree:

One is never sure which of two characteristics is more prominent in the American national character and therefore of the greater significance: naivete or a superiority complex. When for example they say things about our region, our surprise at their ignorance is surpassed only by annoyance at their stupid insolence. The less they know about a matter, the more confidently they speak. They really believe that Europeans are eagerly waiting to hear from them and heed their advice.
[...]
They cannot believe that there are cultural values that are the result of centuries of historical development, which cannot simply be bought. It was no bad joke when, after the war, they bought the ruins of German castles and moved them stone by stone to the USA. They really thought that they had purchased a piece of national history embodied in stone, and were naive enough to think that mocking laughter from Europe was respect for the wealth that enabled them to buy what their own tradition and culture lacked.

If someone who is grotesque and marginal can reproduce correct moral judgement of you, there is a lot of soul searching you should, but yet:

We would not say anything if the USA were aware of its intellectual and moral defects and was trying to grow up.

Get off Reddit and pick up a book.

The constant comparison with Germany (and other countries) is not genuine because the comparisons are always illiterate. It is instead a sorry attempt from both sides of the political aisle to input culture and history to a country that has none.

Your lack of knowledge of political organisation shines through when you insist on collectivism being statist. Your don't know what you're talking about because you've never spend the time to actually study the subject. You're not dumb simply uninformed and uneducated and entirely boring as a result.

Germany was a diseased society during Weimar with prostitution of all ages and shemale bars. Hitler campaigned exactly against that. How can someone who campaigns against a disease embody the pathologies? It can't, even if Hitler later came to embody different diseases. — Lionino

Oh, can you pinpoint for us when Hitler went from an anti-shemale-bar-campaigner to the guy who wanted to remake Europe according to his racial ideology?

Ironically, everything that the "grotesque, marginal" Göbbels said about Burgerland 100 years ago still applies today, and the entire planet would agree: — Lionino

Of all the things I did not expect to read to today, a reverent recitation of Goebbels (his name is actually written without the Umlaut), is probably the thing I expected the least.

Oh, can you pinpoint for us when Hitler went from an anti-shemale-bar-campaigner — Echarmion

Lol, is that guy still posting here? Good god. Don’t waste your time buddy. Ignore extension all the way!

Statism is collectivist. Not “collectivism is statist”. At least try to get it right.

The demagogue expresses the society’s zeitgeist.

I think this is somewhat misleading. The demagogue taps into the dissatisfaction of some portion of society and promises to fix things. In part he does this by setting up a scapegoat. Eliminate the scapegoat and you eliminate the problem.

Unfortunately, and I think inadvertently, Hedges contributes to the problem when he says such things as:

Biden and the Democratic Party are responsible for this zeitgeist. They orchestrated the deindustrialization of the United States, ensuring that 30 million workers lost their jobs in mass layoffs.

Is there a generally agreed upon cause of deindustrialization? Has it been clearly shown that Biden and the Democratic party are responsible? Why does Hedges blame the Democrats?

Elsewhere he says:

What you really got was the transformation of the Democratic party into the Republican party.

When he blames democrats for becoming republicans I take it he is doing two things. The first is historical analysis. The second is to tell democrats that they have lost their way and need to reorient themselves. But things might look quite different when he places the blame at the feet of the Democratic party. This might be taken and used as a sound bite endorsement of the Republicans.

But I still think that incumbency is very powerful. — fishfry

Right. Incumbency IS very powerful, BUT as the calendar says, the November election is a little over 100 days away. No matter what the POTUS or VPOTUS does or doesn't do from July 23 onward, it's going to be a tough scramble.

No surprise here: our economy and politics are run by overlapping elites. That fact provides so much of the story behind the headlines. That, and the rocket-engine personal drive of people who want to be at the top, be they Democrats or Republicans. It takes a lot of drive to get to, and stay at, the top anywhere.

Franklin Delano Roosevelt is the prime example of holding on to his high office when he was in seriously failing health. Wilson planned on a third term, too, but had a stroke in October, 1919. Nixon held on till he faced impeachment and probably forced removal from office. Reagan served with diminished faculties. Trump has a now very familiar problem with the reality situation.

I waa a courtroom prosecutor ... I took on perpetrators of all kind: predators who abused women, fraudsters who ripped-off consumers, cheaters who broke the rules for their own gain. So hear me when I say, I know Donald Trump's type. — VPOTUS Kamala Harris (D-CA)

It ain't no laughing matter to beat this senile fat fascist Clown, yet already I love her happy warrior's laugh. Roevember is coming! :victory: :lol:

I don't care how they engineered ("forced" "bullied") POTUS to step aside ("palace coup"?) so long as the outcome is a candidate to replace him who can curb stomp The MAGA Cult Clown to Electoral College defeat in just over a hundred days. — 180 Proof

And there we have it.

You are not a serious person.

https://m.facebook.com/libsoftiktok/videos/tiktoker-has-complete-meltdown-because-biden-dropped-out/494911602948894/

Unfortunately, this isn't the source i Had - just one I can find by Googling, but it's a TikTok, that i THINK appeared on LibsofTikTok but im unsure.

You are not a serious person. — AmadeusD

Coming from you, lil troll, I wear your grunt like a badge of honor. :up:

Is there a generally agreed upon cause of deindustrialization? — Fooloso4

No, but he lays out his case in his books. I don’t completely agree with Hedges, but I admire his consistency and principles.

Yeah, I'm very cynical when it comes to why no one has just put the facts out there. It seems even the lots of the 'left wing' so called 'liberal' mainstream media see neutral to positive Trump coverage and the repetition of propaganda as a means to an end. Profit is the sole motive. The more viewers the better in those terms.

I'm not sold on Harris' motivations. Or should I say, I'm not very confident that she has the best interest of the overwhelming majority of Americans at heart. That said, Trump and the republican congress members who were/are complicit in his committing fraud against the United States of America need to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. There were many of his actions that were not performed under the recent protective language of SCOTUS's immunity decision.

two points against Hedges' viewpoint:

A very large share of Germans cooperated with the Nazi regime because non-cooperation (let alone opposition) was a high-risk choice. Yes, Post-WWI Germany was hungry, bitter, and resentful and was ready to punish somebody for their loss in the war and their further humiliation in the peace agreement. And yes, after WWII, many Germans sang the I Was Not a Nazi Polka

Biden and the Democratic Party are responsible for this zeitgeist. They orchestrated the deindustrialization of the United States, ensuring that 30 million workers lost their jobs in mass layoffs.

Deindustrialization began long before Biden won his first local election. The leather, shoe, and woven textile and clothing industries in New England started outsourcing manufacturing before WWII, and continued after WWII. Other industries followed suit over time. Cheap, non-unionized labor was irresistible. Other factors also contributed to job losses, among them automation. It took fewer workers to run a new, more efficient steel mill. Automation increased the per-man-hour of productivity, so fewer workers were needed. Moving unskilled manufacturing to benefit from extremely cheap labor costs picked up speed in the 1970s.

I don't want to let the political and economic elites off the hook -- their policies devastated broad swathes of America. Did Biden behave any differently than other elite operatives? No. Will Trump behave any differently than other elite operatives? No. Ditto for Harris.

Just last week: Biden tanking with donors and polls. Trump shot and gets a photo-op. Picks a VP. RNC convention. Elon Musk endorses. One lawsuit thrown out.

Old news. He already peaked, and too early. All downhill from here. Could still pull it off, but what a difference a week makes from the hysterics.

What difference does it make to the country? The net result is the same. — Echarmion

Whatevs.

Trump has a now very familiar problem with the reality situation. — BC

He's the old one now. Kam at least has put some youth into our political process. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out.

Some are saying the earth is flat. — Echarmion

A lot more are calling it a coup than are claiming the earth is flat. What would you call it? The Dems lied for three years to hid Biden's infirmity, then stabbed him in the back. When Nancy Pelosi comes to you and says, "We can do this the easy way or the hard way," and a letter is put out that you clearly didn't write, that's a coup.

Biden did make a brief appearance today. So the narrative has gone from "Sharp as a tack" to "Remarkably lifelike." Still no idea who is running the country.

Of course the MSM spin is that Joe is a patriot for gracefully putting his country first. Caesar stepped down gracefully the same way.

He's the old one now. Kam at least has put some youth into our political process. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out. — fishfry

If anything we can now test the theory of whether replacing one of the two unpopular candidates would ensure their victory. I mean Kamala is far from a generic Democrat, but it seems like voters don't really know much about her apart from her being VP and both sides are scrambling to define her right now so it'll be interesting to see how that plays out.

Just last week: Biden tanking with donors and polls. Trump shot and gets a photo-op. Picks a VP. RNC convention. Elon Musk endorses. One lawsuit thrown out.

Old news. He already peaked, and too early. All downhill from here. Could still pull it off, but what a difference a week makes from the hysterics. — Mikie

I don't think it was intentional but Biden dropping out right after the RNC when the GOP was doing a victory lap with Trump's vanity VP pick was probably the worst time for that to happen to them. The race is reset and the party is now stuck with a flawed running mate, a wasted convention, and thousands of carefully crafted Biden dementia ads that will probably never see the light of day.

Possible VP picks: Mark Kelly, Senator, Arizona

Kelly’s credentials begin with his dazzling biography as a combat-tested Navy pilot and NASA astronaut who commanded shuttle missions aboard both the Discovery and Endeavour and traveled more than 20 million miles in space.

He has also turned out to be a supremely skillful politician in a tough state where the Biden-Harris ticket has been running behind. Kelly won a close race in 2020 to fill the unexpired term of John McCain (R) and then turned around to win it again two years later — this time, with a more comfortable five-point margin against a hard-right Republican election conspiracy theorist endorsed by Donald Trump.

Border Politics: “When I first got to Washington, it didn’t take me long to realize that there are a lot of Democrats who don’t understand our southern border and a lot of Republicans who just want to talk about it, don’t necessarily want to do anything about it, just want to use it politically,” he told me shortly after his 2022 victory. “So my approach has been — to the extent that we could and can — to make progress on securing it, but also doing it in a way that’s in accordance with our ethics and our values, not to demonize people.” — WaPo

A lot more are calling it a coup than are claiming the earth is flat. What would you call it? — fishfry

A public pressure campaign? Why insist on a loaded word like "coup" when this is about who the candidate for the next election will be.

The Dems lied for three years to hid Biden's infirmity, then stabbed him in the back. When Nancy Pelosi comes to you and says, "We can do this the easy way or the hard way," and a letter is put out that you clearly didn't write, that's a coup. — fishfry

They stabbed him in the chest, not the back. It was very visible and very public. Nothing hidden or conspiratorial about it.

Even before the debate the common refrain was that Biden must demonstrate that he's not senile. He didn't. Biden had a lot of support at the time but he was not unassailable as the candidate. And in fact he failed to weather the storm. Nothing about this resembles a "coup", no organised group seized power in an orchestrated operation. One man lost his backing and the best placed person moved into the resulting vacuum.

Still no idea who is running the country. — fishfry

I mean probably the same people who run it most of the time? It's not like the president is required for day to day decisions.

When Nancy Pelosi comes to you and says, "We can do this the easy way or the hard way," and a letter is put out that you clearly didn't write, that's a coup. — fishfry

I had to go and look that up, but that's absolutely crazy. Mob level shit.