I gave a definition of "belief" in a previous post - "attitudes about the world which can be either true or false." You must be using a different definition, which makes fruitful discussion impossible. How can a picture or video be true or false? — T Clark
In fact the video game Journey is an example of such a strange communication game, as it doesn't provide for language use between players — wonderer1
[my bolds]The game is intended to make the player feel "small" and to give them a sense of awe about their surroundings. The basic idea, as designed by Chen, was to create something that moved beyond the "typical defeat/kill/win mentality" of most video games [...]
The developers designed Journey like a Japanese garden, where they attempted to remove all the elements that did not fit, so the emotions they wanted to evoke would come through. This minimalism is intended to make the game feel intuitive to the player, so they can explore and feel a sense of wonder without direct instructions. The story arc is designed to explicitly follow Joseph Campbell's monomyth theory of narrative, or hero's journey, as well as to represent the stages of life, so as to enhance the emotional connection of the players as they journey together. [...]
The multiplayer component of Journey was designed to facilitate cooperation between players without forcing it, and without allowing competition. It is intended to allow the players to feel a connection to other people through exploring with them, rather than talking to them or fighting them. The plan was "to create a game where people felt they are connected with each other, to show the positive side of humanity in them".
The developers felt the focus on caring about the other player would be diluted by too many game elements, such as additional goals or tasks, as players would focus on those and "ignore" the other player. They also felt having text or voice communication or showing usernames would allow players' biases and preconceptions to come between them and the other player. — Wiki - Journey 2012 Video game
[my bolds]Philosopher Lynne Rudder Baker has outlined four main contemporary approaches to belief in her book Saving Belief, related to common-sense:
4. Our common-sense understanding of belief is entirely wrong; however, treating people, animals, and even computers as if they had beliefs is often a successful strategy.
Daniel Dennett and Lynne Rudder Baker, are both eliminativists in that they hold that beliefs are not a scientifically valid concept, but they do not go as far as rejecting the concept of belief as a predictive device.
Dennett gives the example of playing a computer at chess. While few people would agree that the computer held beliefs, treating the computer as if it did (e.g. that the computer believes that taking the opposition's queen will give it a considerable advantage) is likely to be a successful and predictive strategy.
In this understanding of belief, named by Dennett the intentional stance, belief-based explanations of mind and behaviour are at a different level of explanation and are not reducible to those based on fundamental neuroscience, although both may be explanatory at their own level. — Wiki Belief
Unlike many games, where different songs have different themes for each character or area, Wintory chose to base all the pieces on one theme which stood for the player and their journey, with cello solos especially representing the player. Wintory describes the music as "like a big cello concerto where you are the soloist and all the rest of the instruments represent the world around you".
The cello begins the game as "immersed in a sea of electronic sound", before first emerging on its own and then merging into a full orchestra, mirroring the player's journey to the mountain. Whenever the player meets another person, harps and viola are dynamically incorporated into the music
Beneath language, at the quantum level of experience, is something that exists in an undifferentiated form. This is belief. — Noble Dust
If experiencing the rain is a casual sensory interaction with the rain, my belief cannot be false. — javi2541997
how can I experience the belief and the sentence separately? — javi2541997
you experience something but believe it's something else. It's the belief that goes wrong, while the experience is a fact that arises under whatever conditions that satisfy it — jkop
Logically, the belief is about the sentence. — jkop
By "true" in this case I mean that my mental model has a correspondence (or isomorphism) with what is going on within the physical system being mentally modeled. — wonderer1
So, because belief can lead to mistakes, I tend to have a distorted view of reality because what I believe when I experience rain is frequently wrong. But 'it rains' as a preposition is the truth. Therefore, the latter will help me see reality in a correct manner rather than through belief. Am I right, or am I missing something? — javi2541997
I have no idea what you mean by a "correct manner" to see reality. — jkop
But if you assume that you never see reality, only your own representation of it, well... that will inevitably lead you to doubt whether your manner of seeing reality is correct. — jkop
I meant seeing reality in an objective way, because belief is subjective and we already discussed that it can lead me to error. — javi2541997
No, I am not assuming anything. I actually wonder if there is a possibility to see the representation of reality without being cheated by my own beliefs. — javi2541997
So what I believe about myself does indeed create my world.
— Noble Dust
That belief ... merely is your ego – masking oneself (i.e. being-in-the-world) – an 'illusory separation' from the world (i.e. disembodiment fantasy). A psycho-sociological fiction. — 180 Proof
First off, it's good to see you step out from the Shoutbox and toss us some meat to chew on. — T Clark
So, can you have a belief that is not expressed in words? — T Clark
I think there are layers to belief, and if you continue to strip them back, things do indeed get murky until you uncover something pretty raw in the core of your being. It's such a deeply private and personal concept that I literally cannot even attempt to describe with language — Noble Dust
What I'm trying to get at is that what I'm calling "core beliefs" seem to exist in a pre-linguistic way. That's what I'm getting at with the idea of a "linguistic quantum world". It's admittedly a sloppy metaphor. I think there are layers to belief, and if you continue to strip them back, things do indeed get murky until you uncover something pretty raw in the core of your being. — Noble Dust
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