It also gives the well water that much desired new baby smell. — Hanover
YesIf you can't defeat a position, at least disarm it with absurdity.
I'm just fooling around. It's important to keep a sense of humour, even about topics like abortion and infanticide; after all, if we can't laugh at ourselves, what's the point of forcing women to bear children. — Soylent
I buy into the essentialist argument when it comes to what a person is. As one disassembles a ship, at some point it is no longer is a ship. It's never clear which board is the deciding board or if there is any one particular element that stops it from being a ship. It is clear though that a fully formed ship is in fact a ship and that a single board is not a ship. At some point, though, we have a ship and at some point we don't.What's the difference, then, between birth, and before birth that is so important when you say decisions must be made on the safer side of things? — Moliere
Guns are a good way to distribute power in the event there is a concentration of power in the hands of a state, or if there is a political army that is generally oppressive. Arming people to resist the state or said gang is a much more arduous task if the state itself has all the guns. Look at the Syrians who are unable to fend off ISIS for instance. — discoii
As for the argument of preventing people from getting guns to stop crazy people, this logic has stopped the event of crazy gun murderers almost zero times. The truth is that if someone really wanted a gun, they will almost always be able to find a way to get a gun. — discoii
I really think the left in their enthusiasm not to be the right is messed up on this issue. — Baden
The issue is that if you look at gun homicide rates by country, there is no correlation whatsoever with the gun laws and the related gun homicide deaths. Places where guns are completely illegal or nearly illegal for private citizens can still have incredibly high gun homicide rates, while other places where gun laws are relatively lax have low gun homicide rates, and vice versa. For example, Mexico and Brazil have really restrictive gun laws, and they still have really high homicide rates. — discoii
For the record, I am not in support of 'lax gun controls'. I do agree that there needs to be some agreed upon regulations. But I also think that people should be armed. — discoii
I did not set out to persuade you.
...
I don't think philosophy is good for persuasion -- it's a self-reflective exercise more than a tool for persuading others. If your mind is made up then I expect you to continue believing as you do. But just because you, and others here, believe as you do that does not then imply that those who believe otherwise are either absurd or simply speaking opinions because they are the correct opinions to expect in certain political circles. — Moliere
I was called into question, and am defending my position from the claim that it is absurd. — Moliere
As for whether or not my position is popular -- I rather doubt it. — Moliere
Personhood, as I mentioned to Baden, is the concept put forward by those who want to restrict abortion. Usually those who want to allow abortion focus on autonomy more than personhood. — Moliere
Eh? What did I say to provoke this red herring about persuasion and implications that I haven't made? I think that it's absurd because it is absurd. — Sapientia
I doubt that any amount of philosophical blather about person-hood would convince me that it's acceptable to alter the law to make it legal to abort 8 1/2 month old foetuses. — Sapientia
I don't think you're doing a very good a job of it. — Sapientia
I don't think that the terminology matters anywhere near as much as what's actually at stake here. This is literally a matter of life and death; and at 8 1/2 months old, that life is sufficiently advanced to rule out abortion as a legal option. — Sapientia
I think that the consensus arises from this basis;
This is what I was reacting to --
I doubt that any amount of philosophical blather about person-hood would convince me that it's acceptable to alter the law to make it legal to abort 8 1/2 month old foetuses.
— Sapientia
(I was reacting, in particular, to "would convince") — Moliere
I would say that a position with rational justification is not absurd. I think that was presupposed in my reply. So in providing rational justification for my belief I would be defending it from the charge that it is absurd. What is it you mean by "It is absurd"? — Moliere
That's another reason why I don't mind talking in terms of personhood -- because if those who advocate against abortion are correct then there's currently legally justified murder of innocent people. That would be horrific, and worthwhile to stand against. — Moliere
What makes a 8 1/2 month old fetus "sufficiently advanced"? What is sufficiently advanced life? — Moliere
I don't think there is a consensus. If you'll take a peak at the link I posted earlier you'll see a chart of 50 states who place the line along different times. — Moliere
Ah, I see. Well, regardless of whether or not you set out to persuade me, or whether philosophy itself is good for persuasion, the fact is, you made a controversial claim on a philosophy forum, and naturally this sort of thing attracts attention. — Sapientia
But if philosophy isn't good for persuasion, then how did it come to pass that you were persuaded by philosophical literature on this subject?
And not only were you persuaded, you were persuaded to adopt a position which is arguably absurd, and is evidently viewed as such by many, so it must have been quite a feat.
What really matters is the 8 1/2 month old itself, and it's attributes, and what that entails, given our knowledge and values. — Sapientia
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