If you thought slavery were as deleterious as I say, and had generational effects lasting to today even, would you agree that reparations could be justified? — ToothyMaw
No - a hundred years ago, maybe - and I am rather skeptical about people claiming victimhood in this case. — Tzeentch
If you want something to feel guilty about the US has no shortage of atrocities it has committed in the here and now, and has never so much as apologized for. The victims are often still alive, and usually not doing well. Vietnamese mothers are still giving birth to deformed babies as a result of Uncle Sam's Agent Orange treatment. — Tzeentch
Silly it may be and racist it may be, but not for any reason you adduce. If you live in the US, you are presumably and in fact a direct beneficiary of slave labor. As similarly you are presumably and in fact a direct beneficiary of the US Highway system, even if you don't drive. Of freedom won by men who fought, even if you never wore a uniform. Or of a lot of things the creation of which you had nothing to do.People who were never slaveowners paying "reparations" to people who were never slaves all on the basis of skin color is one of the most silly and racist things I've ever heard argued by "serious" intellectuals. — Tzeentch
I am rather skeptical about people claiming victimhood in this case. It's not like the US hasn't ran countless programs trying to elevate people out of poverty. At some point people will have to take responsibility for their own lot in life. Tough shit. — Tzeentch
In my opinion, thinking in terms of monolithic 'Black People' and 'White People' is inherently damaging, yes. — Tzeentch
I said nothing about solutions, but such generalizations to me seem the product of dehumanization, and a part of the problem. — Tzeentch
a non-existent abstraction — Tzeentch
One might have to ask themselves from where this desire comes to view people, rather than as individuals, as inherently part of a non-existent abstraction onto which one has slapped all kinds of nasty labels. The answer is usually pathological in nature. — Tzeentch
If I were to say: white people ought not discriminate against black people as much, and ought to listen when black people claim they are experiencing discrimination, would that be dehumanizing? — ToothyMaw
people living in the United States, who are almost certainly the beneficiaries of slave labor, — ToothyMaw
Okay, nobody has unreasonably abstracted anybody in this thread as far as I know. — ToothyMaw
Furthermore, the desire to throw these roadblocks [...] — ToothyMaw
I said nothing about solutions, but such generalizations to me seem the product of dehumanization, and a part of the problem. — Tzeentch
The practice of trying to simplify large demographics into monolithic groups with a fixed set of characteristics is inherently dehumanizing. and inherently racist. It's the definition of racism, in fact - it's just taking place under another guise. — Tzeentch
Bullshit. T Clark is clearly insisting on the use of skin color as a means of dividing people into monolithic groups. — Tzeentch
Reparations are usually about either a fine/punishment, or an attempt to restore the victim to some status quo ante. — tim wood
Sometimes people say things like this so they won't have to take responsibility for social conditions in the society where they live. — T Clark
Who are these 'Black People' who apparently form a homogeneous group of needy victims looking to be saved and taken pity on, with skin color for some reason being the primary trait we define them by? — Tzeentch
Maybe my small European brain can't fathom the profundity of combatting racism by making people's skin color and race their defining features. — Tzeentch
If I were to say: white people ought not discriminate against black people as much, and ought to listen when black people claim they are experiencing discrimination, would that be dehumanizing?
— ToothyMaw
Yes, and clearly so.
The practice of trying to simplify large demographics into monolithic groups with a fixed set of characteristics is inherently dehumanizing. and inherently racist. It's the definition of racism, in fact - it's just taking place under another guise. — Tzeentch
Maybe my small European brain can't fathom the profundity of combatting racism by making people's skin color and race their defining features. — Tzeentch
What are these "juicy apples", that so apparently form a homogenous group of sweet fruits looking to be peeled and eaten, with skin color for some reason being the primary trait we define them by? — ToothyMaw
I think we can talk about black people without saying that being black is the defining feature of being a black person. Same goes for white people. — ToothyMaw
If I were to say that men ought not rape women, would you say that that is dehumanizing and sexist? — ToothyMaw
Yes, I think that must be right; your small brain cannot fathom that to address racism is not racist. — unenlightened
What are these "juicy apples", that so apparently form a homogenous group of sweet fruits looking to be peeled and eaten, with skin color for some reason being the primary trait we define them by?
— ToothyMaw
People aren't fruit. We don't treat fruit as individuals. We do with people. Kind of proving my point there, buddy. — Tzeentch
I think we can talk about black people without saying that being black is the defining feature of being a black person. Same goes for white people.
— ToothyMaw
Which begs the question why you can't stop talking about this feature that apparently doesn't define the groups, but which you chose to name the groups after anyway. — Tzeentch
If I were to say that men ought not rape women, would you say that that is dehumanizing and sexist?
— ToothyMaw
Mostly this is just a vacuous statement. But yes.
Really what you are implying is "Men are rapists" - strictly speaking true, because some men are indeed rapists.
However, it's your failure to delineate and the insiuation that connects all men to rape that is particularly pernicious. — Tzeentch
I would argue that there are characteristics connected to masculinity, and thus men, as a group, that largely cause some of them to assault women.
— ToothyMaw
So you're a sexist too.
Great. — Tzeentch
You're repeating the exact same pattern with different words — Tzeentch
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