Lorenz describes — T Clark

This system thus exists a priori to the extent that it is present before the individual experiences anything, and must be present if experience is to be possible. But its function is also historically evolved and in this respect not a priori. — Lorenz - Behind the Mirror

If I'm understanding that right, then Lorenz is saying (at least in part) that what is a priori to the individual is a posteriori to the race, or species?

I suspect I'm not using the quote mechanism correctly; I meant to quote T Clark, quoting Lorenz.

If I'm understanding that right, then Lorenz is saying (at least in part) that what is a priori to the individual is a posteriori to the race, or species? — Gregory of the Beard of Ockham

Yes, I think that's exactly right.

I suspect I'm not using the quote mechanism correctly; I meant to quote T Clark, quoting Lorenz. — Gregory of the Beard of Ockham

In my experience you can't nest a quote within a quote on the forum. Maybe someone else knows how to do it.

Fictions by Jorge Luis Borges — javi2541997

Great book. I had some difficulty with it in the beginning: I read the first two or three stories in part one, The Garden of Forking Paths, and thought they were just mildly interesting thought experiments, written in a frustratingly terse manner, so I skipped over the rest and started part two, Artifices. I liked that much more, and when I finished it I went back to part one and for some reason I got on with it much better this time. I guess I had to get used to his writing.


I’ve just read the Republic by Plato, trans. C. D. C. Reeve. Now reading An Introduction to Plato’s Republic by Julia Annas. More than just an introduction, it’s a pretty thorough analysis of the whole work. Recommended.

Great book. I had some difficulty with it in the beginning: — Jamal

I had some difficulties reading Borges as well. It is remarkable his vast knowledge on almost everything. However, I feel he expressed himself in a manner that can only be fully comprehended by him. The eternal handicap of gifted! 

Red Cavalry by Isaac Babel.

Great book. I had some difficulty with it in the beginning: — Jamal

I had some difficulties reading Borges as well. It is remarkable his vast knowledge on almost everything. However, I feel he expressed himself in a manner that can only be fully comprehended by him. The eternal handicap of gifted! — javi2541997

I've always been intrigued by translation. I wonder about the difference of your experiences reading it in Spanish as opposed to English.

Well, I guess I can only answer you properly if I approach the topic of translation on different scales: reading in my native language is always better because everything flows in the perfect rhythm. 

But, reading literature directly written in English—like James Joyce, John Cheever, Dickens, Shaw, etc.—is a great and fruitful experience. It is hard for me to keep a good 'flow' along the book, but it is not a great handicap. It is obvious that it is better to read Joyce directly in English than in Spanish, because the translators usually 'disrupt' the real sense.

There is a big controversy regarding the accurate translation of One Thousand and One Nights, for example.

It is obvious that it is better to read Joyce directly in English than in Spanish, because the translators usually 'disrupt' the real sense. — javi2541997

Have you ever read a Spanish book and also the English translation? If so, what was the experience like? Did the translation get the original right?

Have you ever read a Spanish book and also the English translation? — T Clark

Yes, Gloria Fuertes' poems. She is my favourite poet. She mainly wrote children's poetry, but some poems were more deep and 'for adults'. I also read some of Fuertes' works in English because it was a big surprise for me that she was an important subject of study for American hispanists and other experts in Spanish literature.

Like the poet of my childhood being studied by experts in Hardvard or Yale! Wow!

If so, what was the experience like? Did the translation get the original right? — T Clark

The experience was actually pretty good. The translators made a good effort to understand madrileño vocabulary. The Spanish poets under the Franco regime—Generation of '50—were awesome but sadly underrated!

Generation of '50

I'm currently reading about biosemiotics. It is the science of signification that stretches across the biological domain, the logical extension of Lorenz's ideas you mentioned. The grandfather of biosemiotics is Jakob von Uexkull. Biosemiotician Barbieri notes that von Uexkull's Umwelt:

had an influence on...Ernst Cassirer and Martin Heidegger...and was instrumental for Konrad Lorenz's development of ethology.

I'm trying to expand the notion of biosemiotics to embrace the entire material domain, not just the biological (a la Terrence Deacon).

I'm trying to expand the notion of biosemiotics to embrace the entire material domain, not just the biological (a la Terrence Deacon). — Pantagruel

Apokrisis has written a lot about biosemiotics and, based on his recommendations, I've read a couple of articles. I must admit I've never have been able to figure out what it really means - how it manifests in the world. I hadn't heard of Deacon, so I looked him up. Wikipedia says "Deacon's theoretical interests include the study of evolution-like processes at multiple levels...He has long stated an interest in developing a scientific semiotics (particularly biosemiotics) that would contribute to both linguistic theory and cognitive neuroscience."

After reading the Lorenz book we have discussed as well as "What is Life - How Chemistry Becomes Biology" by Addy Pross I have taken a strong interest in evolution as an organizing principle beyond just biology. Both write about evolution as it might apply to different levels of organization - Pross about evolution as a mechanism of abiogenesis and Lorenz about the evolution of societies.

So - is there a connection between biosemiosis and this broader understanding of evolution?

So - is there a connection between biosemiosis and this broader understanding of evolution? — T Clark

My take is that biosemiosis is essentially the materialization of understanding. So expanding it becomes a kind of self-understanding that embraces and constitutes reality at the deepest levels, through/as the mechanism of semiotic feeback.

Little Dorrit
by Charles Dickens

The Dream of Heroes by Adolfo Bioy Casares.

Casares was a good friend of Borges, and I discovered him thanks to the latter. My book has a cute little note written in 1988 by Casares explaining the psychology of his characters. What a gentleman, it is hard to find that connection between the writer and readers nowadays. Two years later, in 1990, Casares won the Miguel de Cervantes Prize.

I read The Invention of Morel earlier this year. It's great, and surprising in a way I can't reveal without spoiling the story.

The Invention of Morel is on the shelf of my parents house, but I decided to pick The Dream of Heroes instead! Nice to know you liked it. I will put it on my list of future readings. :smile:

I was actually wondering which of his works to read next, but English translations are not easy to find. Many of them seem to be out of print.

I agree. Translations could be a handicap, often. The small written note that I referred to previously also contains a brief suggestion to other Casares' works. It says that The Snow's Perjury is short but beautiful and great. I wish you could find a good translation in English.