From the standpoint of Buddhism, love would be the act of mindfulness—the inner peace and interconnectedness we reach when we momentarily touch Nirvana. In a more mundane sense, loving kindness in our thoughts, words, and deeds is a consequence of love. I would say it's not necessary to "know" the person or thing that receives love; simply being aware makes it possible to express and share this mind state.

I can hold my pride tight, or I can give and receive love. I can't do both. They're mutually exclusive. — Patterner

Hours later your words mixed with another thought I am holding and together those thoughts could potentially be life changing. I take pride in being pretty egoless, but I became aware of what my ego has to do with some conflict resolution failures. Interesting. I look to seeing if a changed behavior pattern gets better results. I thought that you might like to know your words were so effective.

If anything I've learned from my own failures helps, then I'm happy. Love to you.

If anything I've learned from my own failures helps, then I'm happy. Love to you. — Patterner

I don't know about you but when I was 18 I thought I was an adult and knew everything that I needed to know. Several years later it is amazing how much more there is to learn. It is a shame it takes so long to learn how to live well, and then we are old and no one wants to listen. What hurts is seeing how family problems can affect the children for several generations.

Seagulls are more careful about mating and birds do not reproduce until they have a nest. I think a god could have made us smarter before giving us freedom of will and setting us out to fend for ourselves.

"Several years later"? Don't I wish! :rofl: I'm 60.

From the standpoint of Buddhism, love would be the act of mindfulness—the inner peace and interconnectedness we reach when we momentarily touch Nirvana. In a more mundane sense, loving kindness in our thoughts, words, and deeds is a consequence of love. I would say it's not necessary to "know" the person or thing that receives love; simply being aware makes it possible to express and share this mind state. — Alonsoaceves

I am beginning to understand that of which you speak. There was a time in my life when I could not imagine happiness and love. I had done my best to have a happy family and failed. A problem I have with Buddhism is, I have not picked up family values from Buddhism. In my later years, I have the luxury of focusing on my own happiness and it is no longer dependent on family, but I think civilizations depend on families. That may not be true. However, if civilization is dependent on families and our happiness depends on happy families, we are in trouble.

"Several years later"? Don't I wish! :rofl: I'm 60. — Patterner

You are still a kid.

It is wonderful to have a place where thinking people can gather and share their thoughts and what they have learned. I was intellectually starving to death before the Internet. The media talks about the problems with social media, but I see reason to hope for a better world because of social media.

Eros leads the way upwards, as Plato says in the Symposium: — Count Timothy von Icarus

Women were not permitted to attend "respectable" symposia in ancient Greece, but high-class female prostitutes (hetairai) and entertainers were often hired to perform and converse with the guests.
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/history-magazine/article/ancient-greece-symposium-dinner-party#:~:text=In%20ancient%20Greece%2C%20wealthy%20men,women%2C%20wine%2C%20and%20song.

That order of things is not apt to bring us close to the good life because women were not equals and leaving men in charge is problematic. Appreciating beauty, good music, and good art and intentionally becoming refined may bring heaven to earth, but not if women are excluded.

When I see fathers with their children, I have hope that we will see a better day. I think our culture has been male-dominant, especially since industrialization. I think we are suffering serious problems because of that. Homes without good fathers are not a good thing.

Ironic for those who don't like it to use it to complain about it. But social media isn't all bad. Even if it's more difficult to have the kinds of conversations on fb that we have here, fb is great for keeping and reestablishing connections from long ago.

I can hold my pride tight, or I can give and receive love. I can't do both. They're mutually exclusive.
— Patterner

Hours later your words mixed with another thought I am holding and together those thoughts could potentially be life changing. I take pride in being pretty egoless, but I became aware of what my ego has to do with some conflict resolution failures. Interesting. I look to seeing if a changed behavior pattern gets better results. I thought that you might like to know your words were so effective. — Athena

That is about the most profound little exchange I have seen on this site. Thank you both for your insight and honesty. I, too have to think for myself about this in my own life.

I hardly doubt that family values exist in Buddhism, as this leads to creating concepts in our minds. However, there are some core values that can apply to family - such as understanding that the pain family causes is a consequence of our attachment to ideas. I don't believe family is necessary for happiness, but I advocate for the family institution since it's the primordial link in the broader social fabric.

That is about the most profound little exchange I have seen on this site. Thank you both for your insight and honesty. I, too have to think for myself about this in my own life. — unenlightened

I like the word "profound". That is the perfect word for my experience.

A few months ago someone at the pool told me a Hawaiian greeting goes like this....

"I am sorry, I hope you forgive me. I love you. thank you." Can you see how Pattener's words played into that greeting?

Humans are the worst. It's hard to articulate how stupid we are. We know love is the best thing about life. We know you can't use it up, because giving love only generates more love. And yet, we so very, very ... very often blow it.

Pride is one of love's biggest enemies. I can hold my pride tight, or I can give and receive love. I can't do both. They're mutually exclusive. — Patterner

I have recently used that greeting with my sister and my granddaughter when fear and anger were being very destructive. Because of Patterner's post I realized it is my ego that rebelled against saying those loving words. What I want most is love for all of us, but my ego was saying "hello no, I am not going to let them believe they are right and all the emotional problems are because I have been so bad." My ego wanted them to see their wrong. But I didn't understand that my ego was making matters worse until I read Patterner's post.

Frustrating! I got that my sister and granddaughter are going through serious turmoil and therefore they are not being rational. I got that the emotional problems would not be resolved by trying to be rational with them. But to let go and give love a chance is a huge leap of faith in love. My ego is jumping up and down and screaming like a charter in the Disney movie "Inside Out".

https://www.google.com/search?gs_ssp=eJzj4tLP1TcoLyjPSc8xYPSSTskszkutVMjNL8tMVUhMyi8tUUjNzS_JzM8rBgAoew7Y&q=disney+movie+about+emotions&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS926US926&oq=disney+movie+about&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqBwgBEC4YgAQyCggAEAAY4wIYgAQyBwgBEC4YgAQyBggCEEUYOTIHCAMQABiABDIHCAQQABiABDIHCAUQABiABDIHCAYQABiABDIHCAcQABiABDIHCAgQABiABDIHCAkQABiABNIBCjE2NTE0ajBqMTWoAgiwAgE&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:77b128da,vid:LEjhY15eCx0,st:0

"hello no, I am not going to let them believe they are right and all the emotional problems are because I have been so bad." — Athena

Probably not all. Hehe. Anyway, I certainly hope it works out!



Thank you.

Probably not all. Hehe. Anyway, I certainly hope it works out! — Patterner

Regardless of what happens. Your words have changed how I think and I think I will like this change.

What we all want is love and love does increase love. It is only rational to give the screaming ego a sucker and tell it to sit in the corner. Its intentions are good but maybe it should not be the driver of our lives. This bleeds into the thread I started about being rational. Maturing is learning to be more rational and not letting our emotions control us.

Our child-rearing skills are different today from when we beat the devil out of our children. In the past how we reacted to children was dependent on how we felt. Today our reactions are more likely to be guided by research on child development. I think this is now an evolutionary change. I sure hope so.

However, I also think a better world means happier families. I think it is very damaging to children when parents divorce or move, always expecting the child to adjust to any changes the parents make. Emotional pain is passed on from generation to generation and I think we need to stop being so careless about how the children are affected.

The badly hurt children in my life are now the adults, and their pain became the pain and suffering of their children. Tolerating the use of drugs and alcohol is not good for the children. Wars and sending men and women home with serious disabilities and post-trauma syndrome is not good for the family. Severe economic depressions are terrible for individuals and families. I think cultural adjustments are necessary for a better civilization.

I hardly doubt that family values exist in Buddhism, as this leads to creating concepts in our minds. However, there are some core values that can apply to family - such as understanding that the pain family causes is a consequence of our attachment to ideas. I don't believe family is necessary for happiness, but I advocate for the family institution since it's the primordial link in the broader social fabric. — Alonsoaceves

I googled for information about Buddhism. The first Buddha came from a royal family and he renounced those family ties and obligations. This set the stage for nuns and monks who abstained from sex and family obligations but interestingly society rationalized family values as compatible with Buddhism. So you are correct.

The nature and purpose of the Buddhist family
Buddhism has a long tradition of encouraging
monastic celibacy
. This is because the life of a nun or monk, free of sex and family responsibilities, may provide the best conditions for practising the Buddha’s teachings. However, most Buddhists live in couples or families, married or unmarried.

Buddhist families vary according to the customs of the country they live in, and include
nuclear families
, extended families and same-sex parents, as well as couples without children.

The Five Moral Precepts and the Noble Eightfold Path are important guides for the Buddhist family and other areas of life. https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/articles/zshf46f#zbjh3qt

Interesting is seeing marriage as a legal thing, not a spiritual thing. Especially Mormans see family as the ordering of life here on earth and in the afterlife. I think most, if not all Christians, look forward to being with their loved ones in the afterlife. More along the lines of reincarnation tying people to each other. I think Buddhaism favors breaking that karma and that would discourage family and having children.

You mentioned the fabric of society and I hope you have more to say about that. "The Fates, also known as the Moirai, are three goddesses in Greek mythology who weave the threads of life for mortals:" Interesting!

Love is an acceptance of another person's pros and cons. Despite knowing the imperfection of a person, you wish that they continue to live their best life, and are able to support them the best you can through their trials in life.

Every other 'addendum' to love includes things like 'family bonds' 'romance' etc. But remove all of that, and this is love.

What is love?

Something I've recently fallen into, that makes me feel young again, and makes me think philosophy is awfully boring.

:razz:

There is nothing so whole as a broken heart. — an old Rabbi

Deep love seems to be mutual joy inspite of rather than because of – surrender (e.g. "unselfing" ~ I. Murdoch) without idealization. (Spinoza meets Žižek) :broken:

What is love?

Something I've recently fallen into, that makes me feel young again, and makes me think philosophy is awfully boring.

:razz: — wonderer1

Congratulations! Nothing feels like love. Dive in deep, and don't come out until they drag you away with horses! Be foolish and extravagant!

And if you end up devastated with a broken heart, wallow deep. The depths you fall will be matched by the heights you fly next time.

And philosophy will always be there, sometimes more, sometimes less.

Thanks! :grin:

I return to this thread because the problem of serious family estrangement seems to be resolving. We will be going through some trials and tribulations, and this may improve bonding. So I want to say, to some degree, "love" is what we make it. Many families become estranged from each other and never get past that.

If I ever thought I wanted to bond with a man, I would begin probing his notions of virtues. I totally want to avoid rash reactions stimulated by oxycontin, the love hormone. That physical nature of love is not to be trusted and can lead to serious regrets.

Looking back on my past, I think leaping into love can be a very serious mistake, especially if the people can produce children who will suffer their parents' errors.

Love is an acceptance of another person's pros and cons. Despite knowing the imperfection of a person, you wish that they continue to live their best life, and are able to support them the best you can through their trials in life.

Every other 'addendum' to love includes things like 'family bonds' 'romance' etc. But remove all of that, and this is love. — Philosophim

Is it love or lust? You speak of virtues and so many positive things happen when we are virtuous, but I don't think things go so well without virtues. I hate it when a guy sweeps me off my feet and two months later it is all over. The physical aspect of love can be very short.

"Several years later"? Don't I wish! :rofl: I'm 60. — Patterner

You are still a kid. However, you are old enough to start experiencing some awesome mental activity! Our brains change as we age and it is not all bad. When we are young we learn facts but not so much their meaning. In our later years, thoughts start coming together and we get a greater sense of meaning. This is really cool especially when it involves family and a stronger feeling of meaning. I am good with my life coming to an end if I can pass some of the good stuff on to the young.

From the standpoint of Buddhism, love would be the act of mindfulness—the inner peace and interconnectedness we reach when we momentarily touch Nirvana. In a more mundane sense, loving kindness in our thoughts, words, and deeds is a consequence of love. I would say it's not necessary to "know" the person or thing that receives love; simply being aware makes it possible to express and share this mind state. — Alonsoaceves

Sorry for the delay in replying. I recently attended a meeting where someone promoted using a psychedelic mushroom to release the fear of death, addictions, and depression. This would be guided in a clinical situation and it is very expensive. I would love to try it but I don't have that kind of money.

His explanation seemed similar to the Buddhist/Hindu releasing of ego and touch of Nirvana. I meditate and have had a transcendental experience of oneness. I think this has value but I am prejudiced in favor of family love. Family love involves a lot of ego, while Nirvana is a release of ego, right?

Indeed, it is. However, I'm not a Buddhist scholar, so I can't make definitive assertions. To the best of my understanding, attachment - whether to family, things or oneself - binds one to what Buddhists call the illusion (Maya). Yet, enjoying family, surroundings and beings without attachment is a form of Nirvana. Being aware in the present moment is key.

Yes, I'm in a good place lately. :grin: