In the ideal of all ideals, I'd prefer the question of abortion's legality to be settled by women only. But, I'm not sure how you'd implement that. — Moliere
That's another statement that I find particularly disagreeable on sexist grounds. Our ideals are clearly opposed in certain respects. The thought that all of my views on this important topic, of which I'm passionate, and with which I have made an effort to be reasonable and conscientious, which effect the whole of society - not just women - would be discounted solely on the basis of my gender... that is a thought that I find highly objectionable. — Sapientia
In the ideal of all ideals, I'd prefer the question of abortion's legality to be settled by women only. But, I'm not sure how you'd implement that. — Moliere
And there was much gnashing of teeth...
The similarity between yours and the Catholic position is more in the above than the exact placement of the line. As far as I'm concerned your placement of the line is the same as defending zygotes -- but Catholics will say that zygotes are persons, and so they will say most of what you say in regards to those who disagree with them. — Moliere
Moliere could be saying that only those who get pregnant ought to be empowered to decide whether or not to have an abortion, which seems pretty reasonable to me. To say that women should have the same bodily autonomy as men is precisely anti-sexist. — jamalrob
I think I'm with Moliere on guns too, though I'm undecided. — jamalrob
for a woman's right to choose what to do with her body, which includes the fetus. — jamalrob
I am not going to spell things out for you. As I said, what you claim follows from my position only does so given a number of other premises, and I refuse to believe you don't have the imagination to see that, even to see what my own assumptions are. What is a body? What do we mean when we talk of a woman's body, and is this like talking about a fetus's body, or somewhat different? When I talk of the woman's body I am talking about the body of a person. Etc.You can call it what you like but it matters if that's the basis of your argument. — Baden
This doesn't follow. Your prior position was that the pregnant woman alone had the right to choose abortion at any time because it was her body. If that is your position, it makes no more sense to allow a man or another woman to decide what that woman gets to do with her own body. Women don't have a special sisterhood where one gets decide what to do with another's body. If a 15 year old girl is pregnant, you believe Sarah Palin should be given greater rights to decide what she ought to do over Bernie Sanders? — Hanover
Suppose some women believe that men ought to weigh in on the issue, does the authority they have as women encompass the power to delegate that power to men? — Hanover
Either you want to make every case subjective where the pregnant woman herself gets to weigh her life circumstances and emotions and decide or you create some objective criteria that you apply across the board. If you're going to look for some objective criteria that allows limitations on abortions, women are no better objective evaluators than men regarding what criteria ought to be used. It's not as if every woman has been pregnant or can be pregnant, and it's not as if no man has any understanding of what human life is.
And, of course, arguing that only women can meaningfully debate the abortion issue somewhat defeats any argument you've presented here regarding abortion, your being male and all.
My major problem with your position is not that it's not rational. My problem with your position is that it's undesirable due to the consequences. — Baden
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