• Wolfgang
    62
    The 'hard problem of consciousness' formulated by the Australian philosopher David Chalmers has heated the minds of philosophers, neuroscientists and cognitive researchers alike in recent decades. Chalmers argues that the real challenge is to explain why and how we have subjective, qualitative experiences (also known as qualia). The central question of the hard problem is: Why and how do subjective, conscious experiences arise from physical processes in the brain?

    This question may seem simple at first glance, but it has far-reaching implications for our understanding of consciousness, reality, and the human experience. It goes beyond simply explaining how the brain works and targets the heart of what it means to be a conscious being.

    A concrete example of this problem is the question: "Why do we experience the color red as red?" This is not just about how our visual system works, but why we have a subjective experience of red in the first place, rather than simply processing that information without consciously experiencing it.

    In the following, I will explain that both the question of the hard problem and the answers often given to it are based on two, if not three, decisive errors in reasoning. These errors of thought are so fundamental that they not only challenge the hard problem itself, but also have far-reaching implications for other areas of philosophy and science.

    The first error in thinking: The confusion of levels of description

    Let's start with a highly simplified example to illustrate the first error in thinking: Imagine a photon beam hits your eye. This light stimulus is transmitted to the brain via the optic nerve, where it excites a specific group of neurons.

    Up to this point, nothing immaterial has happened. We operate exclusively in the field of physics and physiology. This process, which describes the physical and biological foundations of vision, can be precisely grasped and analyzed with the tools of the natural sciences.

    Interestingly, the same process can also be described from a completely different perspective, namely that of psychology. There the description would be: "I see something red and experience this perception consciously." This psychological description sounds completely different from the physiological one, but it refers to the same process.

    The decisive error in thinking now occurs when we swap or mix the levels of description. So if we suddenly switch from the physiological to the psychological level and construct a causal relationship between the two that cannot exist in reality. So if we claim that physiology is the basis of psychology, or that the excited group of neurons causes the conscious experience of red.

    In truth, it is not a causal relationship, but a correlation between two different levels of description of the same phenomenon. By falsely establishing a causal relationship, we artificially create the seemingly insoluble question of how neuronal activity can give rise to conscious experience.

    This mistake is comparable to suddenly changing lanes on the motorway and becoming a wrong-way driver. You leave the safe area of a consistent level of description and enter a range where the rules and assumptions of the previous level no longer apply.

    The Second Error in Thinking: The Confusion of Perspectives

    The second fundamental error in thinking is based on the confusion of the perspectives from which we look at a phenomenon. Typically, we start with a description of the visual process from a third-person perspective - in other words, we describe what is objectively observable. Then, suddenly, and often unconsciously, we switch to first-person perspective by asking why we experience the process of seeing in a certain way.

    By making this change of perspective, we once again establish a supposed causal relationship, this time between two fundamentally different 'observational perspectives'. We try to deduce the subjective experience of seeing from the objective description of the visual process, which leads to further seemingly insoluble problems.

    This change of perspective is particularly treacherous because it often happens unnoticed. It leads to questions such as "Why does consciousness feel the way it feels?", which already contain in their formulation the assumption that there must be an objective explanation for subjective experiences.

    The Third Error in Thinking: The Tautological Question

    A third error in thinking, which is more subtle but no less problematic, is that we ask questions that are tautological in themselves and therefore fundamentally unanswerable. A classic example of this is the question: "Why do I see the color red as red?"

    This question is similar to asking why H2O is wet. We first define water as wet and then claim that this definition must be explained physically. Similarly, we define our subjective experience of the color red, and then demand an explanation of why that experience is exactly as we have defined it.

    Such tautological questions mislead us because they give the impression that there is a deep mystery to be solved, when in reality there is only a circular definition.

    The consequences of these errors in thinking

    The effects of these errors in thinking go far beyond the 'hard problem of consciousness'. They form the basis for a multitude of misunderstandings and pseudo-problems in philosophy and science.

    On the one hand, they form the basis for large parts of esotericism, which speaks of a 'spirit' that only arises through a language shift and is then constantly expanded. The same applies to explanatory approaches that want to ascribe additional, mysterious substances to matter, such as 'information' in the sense of an 'it from bit'.

    The Austrian philosopher Ludwig Wittgenstein already held the view that the majority of philosophical problems are based on linguistic confusion. I would like to add that they are also based on unnoticed shifts in perspective and the mixing of levels of description.

    Evolutionary Biology Explanation

    With the evolutionary biological emergence of sensors and nerves, the orientation of organisms took on a multimodal quality compared to the purely chemotactic one. Centralization in the brain brought with it the need for a feedback mechanism that made it possible to consciously perceive incoming stimuli – consciousness, understood as the ability to sense stimuli. This development represents a decisive step forward, as it allowed organisms to exhibit more complex and flexible behaviours.

    With the differentiation of the brain, the sensations experienced became more and more abstract, which allowed the organisms to orient themselves at a higher level. This form of abstraction is what we call "thoughts" – internal models of the world that make it possible to understand complex relationships and react flexibly to the environment.

    This evolutionary perspective shows that consciousness is essentially an adaptive function for optimizing survivability. Consciousness allowed organisms not only to react, but to act proactively, which was an evolutionary advantage in an increasingly complex and dynamic environment. The hard problem of consciousness can therefore be seen as a misunderstanding of the evolutionary function and development of consciousness. What we perceive as a subjective experience is essentially the evolution of a mechanism that ensures that relevant stimuli are registered and processed in an adaptive way.
    Because without consciousness, i.e. thinking and feeling, sensors and nerves would have no meaning.
  • Harry Hindu
    5k
    In truth, it is not a causal relationship, but a correlation between two different levels of description of the same phenomenon. By falsely establishing a causal relationship, we artificially create the seemingly insoluble question of how neuronal activity can give rise to conscious experience.Wolfgang

    I don't think the issue is causation. The issue is in thinking in dualistic ways, as in material vs immaterial, physical vs non-physical and objective vs subjective. When you think of the world as composed of two opposing things then you have a problem of explaining how those two things can interact causally.

    Consciousness is information. Information is a relationship between effects and their causes. We don't seem to have a problem with causation in describing all the other processes of the world. It's only when we get to consciousness that we seem to have the problem. But this is an issue that stems from thinking of the world in dualistic terms, not an issue of causation.

    Consciousness and the rest of the world is not subjective or objective. It is something that is both an effect and a cause of change in the world. Consciousness is no different than a map of the world. Maps are information about the environment relative to a certain location (a bird's eye view). Consciousness is the same thing from a different location of your senses. So what makes a map objective and consciousness subjective when they are both an arrangement of information about the environment, but just from different locations? The way the information is structured, whether it be a map or consciousness, depends upon the relative location within the environment one is describing. When you are flying in a plane and look down, does your perspective suddenly become objective because the structure of the information is similar to a map?
  • J
    440
    There's a reason why Chalmers says "arises from" rather than "is caused by." You're assuming causation here, but that's not built into the hard problem. Have you read Jaegwon Kim? His ideas on supervenience and other grounding relations are very helpful.

    This question is similar to asking why H2O is wetWolfgang

    Can you explain why this is a tautological question? I would have said that there are non-tautological, chemical reasons that explain why H2O, at a certain temperature, is wet.

    Centralization in the brain brought with it the need for a feedback mechanism that made it possible to consciously perceive incoming stimuli – consciousness, understood as the ability to sense stimuli.Wolfgang

    But that's precisely the hard problem: Whence this "ability to sense stimuli"? Why couldn't the stimuli simply do their thing (including whatever self-correction you want to build into it) without being sensed? And don't forget that the other aspect of the hard problem is to explain its modal status: Is consciousness necessarily as it is? What is it about biological life that gives rise to this phenomenon, this "feedback mechanism," rather than some other?

    And of course this all leaves out the scientific question: Exactly how did the evolutionary process occur? What happens with neurons that leads to consciousness? Fortunately, this aspect of the hard problem is not for us philosophers to solve!
  • Harry Hindu
    5k
    There's a reason why Chalmers says "arises from" rather than "is caused by."J
    What's the difference? If you are saying that something comes from the actions of something else, or from some other process that is in a different spatial-temporal location than what is arising, and is dependent upon the existence of that process, then you're talking about causality. "Arise" is a type of causal process.

    But that's precisely the hard problem: Whence this "ability to sense stimuli"? Why couldn't the stimuli simply do their thing (including whatever self-correction you want to build into it) without being sensed?J
    Consciousness obviously provides survival benefits to the organisms that have it. It allows organisms to adapt to more dynamic environments rather than relying on instinctual behaviors to evolve which could take generations. The hard problem is more more about trying to explain how color "arises" from non-colored things, like neurons and wavelengths.
  • J
    440
    The hard problem is more about trying to explain how color "arises" from non-colored things, like neurons and wavelengths.Harry Hindu

    I agree. I took that to be part of asking how a "sense" of stimuli could take place.

    I don't read "arises" as a type of causation. We need a verb to describe what happens when two phenomena occur at the same time, and yet one appears to ground the other. That's what I think "arises" is supposed to mean here. Causation should be reserved for things that occur sequentially in time. @Wolfgang's two levels of description are a good example. Does the presence of 22 people on a soccer field, following certain rules, "cause" a soccer game? This would be a very awkward and counter-intuitive way of putting it. Rather, we'd say that the soccer game simply is the 22 people following the rules, under a different description.

    (Note, BTW, that speaking of "two phenomena" somewhat begs the question, but it's hard to find a non-question-begging way of putting it.)
  • Wolfgang
    62
    Suppose you know nothing about consciousness, but you examine a human organism and find that there are sensors and nerves. Do you then ask yourself what this is good for? The answer will be that it must have a function. Perhaps you then think that it is there so that these beings can sense what they are doing. So that they are not eaten in the next moment. Sensing is nothing other than consciousness. In our case, this has now become more differentiated, so that we experience entire dramas. This does not change the principle.
  • J
    440
    you examine a human organism and find that there are sensorsWolfgang

    But to know that they were "sensors," you'd have to already be importing some idea of what it means to sense, i.e., be conscious. Otherwise, aren't the nerves just collections of stimulus-response machines, and isn't that function enough? I don't think this succeeds in avoiding the hard problem.
  • Outlander
    2.1k


    Eager to participate yet resistant as your OP rings true "it seems simple at a first (uninformed) take".

    I'd say a staple of consciousness has to be recognizing yourself as independent from your peers (bird reflection test)

    So, we'd agree a bird or other animal is conscious, whether or not it is fooled by it's own mirrored reflection, is that right?

    It seems to me consciousness is the ability to record and recall instances of time and make future inferences as a result: past, present, and future. "I was young once, I am middle-aged now, and I will (hopefully) be old in the not too distant future." Is that fair?
  • Wolfgang
    62
    Think logically: if they were stimulus-response machines, who would monitor the sensors? A homunculus, perhaps? The whole thing is self-organized. There is no red alarm light that lights up in case of danger. Life has to do everything itself. So it senses everything that is there inside and outside.
    You have to distance yourself from yourself and your oh-so-fascinating experience, otherwise it will be difficult to understand it.
  • J
    440
    Think logically: if they were stimulus-response machines, who would monitor the sensors?Wolfgang

    I must be missing something. Why do you need a "who" to monitor anything? A thermostat monitors itself just fine. It receives a stimulus and responds accordingly.
  • schopenhauer1
    10.8k
    Suppose you know nothing about consciousness, but you examine a human organism and find that there are sensors and nerves. Do you then ask yourself what this is good for? The answer will be that it must have a function. Perhaps you then think that it is there so that these beings can sense what they are doing. So that they are not eaten in the next moment. Sensing is nothing other than consciousness. In our case, this has now become more differentiated, so that we experience entire dramas. This does not change the principle.Wolfgang



    At heart, is how it is that "sensing" comes from physiological processes. The homunculus fallacy rears its head when you assume the process and sensing without making the connection (the hard problem!).
  • J
    440
    Yes, and if you "define down" sensing so that it becomes something a thermostat can do, then you're still minus a theory of consciousness, which now has to be defined as something else.
  • schopenhauer1
    10.8k
    Yes, and if you "define down" sensing so that it becomes something a thermostat can do, then you're still minus a theory of consciousness, which now has to be defined as something else.J

    Yes. Also may I add, "sensing" is doing the work of two meanings that shouldn't be confused here.

    1) Sensing- akin to "responding in a behavioral kind of way"
    2) Sensing- akin to "feeling something".

    Clearly we want to know how 1 and 2 are the same, or how 1 leads to 2, etc. That is the hard problem, more-or-less simplified.
  • Gnomon
    3.7k
    levels of description
    Up to this point, nothing immaterial has happened. We operate exclusively in the field of physics and physiology. . . . . In truth, it is not a causal relationship, but a correlation between two different levels of description of the same phenomenon
    Wolfgang
    Thanks for the novel approach to the categorical conundrum : Hard (theoretical ; philosophical) Problem as compared to the Easier (empirical ; scientific) Problem.

    All causation is a correlation between Cause & Effect. But some (snapshot) relationships are static and statistical, with no change in (physical) state. A state change requires energy, and a source. The difference between physiology and psychology is A> state change (physical energy) and B> categorical shift (mental information). :smile:
    "Correlation is a statistical measure that shows the relationship between two or more variables, while causation means that one event is the result of another. Correlation does not automatically imply causation, and causation always implies correlation." ___ Google AI overview

    Typically, we start with a description of the visual process from a third-person perspective - in other words, we describe what is objectively observable. Then, suddenly, and often unconsciously, we switch to first-person perspective by asking why we experience the process of seeing in a certain way.Wolfgang
    Third person is objective. First person is subjective. Objective looks at external physical things (objects). Subjective looks at internal metaphysical concepts (ideas). Even if a physical Cause of observed change is not obvious, we still infer (from common experience) that some Cause was necessary. (e.g. Where did that bullet come from? We automatically look in the direction of the bang). :smile:
    "The problem of causality is a philosophical issue that involves the difficulty of determining which events are causes and which are effects." ___ Google AI overview

    "Why does consciousness feel the way it feels?", which already contain in their formulation the assumption that there must be an objective explanation for subjective experiences.Wolfgang
    From experience with the physical world we learn (assumption) to look for a cause for every change in state. The only exceptions are found in the uncertainties of quantum physics, in which an effect may seem to precede the cause. :smile:
    "The idea that every effect has a cause is known as universal causation. However, some physicists and philosophers question whether cause and effect are as straightforward as they seem". ___ Google AI overview

    we ask questions that are tautological in themselves and therefore fundamentally unanswerable.Wolfgang
    "Why?" questions correlate Objective with Subjective. Philosophical vs Scientific. Any answer is not empirical/objective but theoretical & personal. Theoretical opinions may be accepted without empirical evidence if they feed a need. The ability to see complementary or contrasting colors (redness vs green) allows us to discriminate a predator from the vegetation. Example : wetness is not an objective observation, but subjective qualia. Is that walking surface slippery? :smile:

    the majority of philosophical problems are based on linguistic confusion.Wolfgang
    Animals without language, also lack a philosophical ability to ask why? So, they seldom confuse What Is with What Ought to Be. :smile:

    This evolutionary perspective shows that consciousness is essentially an adaptive function for optimizing survivability.Wolfgang
    The human ability to predict the future state of a physical system is the core of both Science and Philosophy. The difference is that Science uses that information for practical (material) purposes, while Philosophy uses that premonition for psychological reasons (feelings & meanings). :smile:
  • J
    440
    "Sensing" is doing the work of two meanings that shouldn't be confused here.

    1) Sensing- akin to "responding in a behavioral kind of way"
    2) Sensing- akin to "feeling something".

    Clearly we want to know how 1 and 2 are the same, or how 1 leads to 2, etc
    schopenhauer1

    Right. "The thermostat is sensitive to the temperature" vs. "I feel warm [sensitive to the temperature]". Either is good English, but the philosophical difference is considerable.

    I suggest this, though: Hopefully, only a behaviorist believes that 1 and 2 are literally the same. Perhaps what we want to know is, first, How does "feeling something" (sense 2) lead to a physical response (the so-called problem of mental causation)? and, second, Is there a physical substrate in the brain upon which "feeling something" (sense 2) supervenes, such that the feeling is not caused by that substrate? I believe that separating grounding from causation is extremely important here, because otherwise we risk getting pushed into an explanatory situation in which a physical process causes a mysterious and elusive mental effect, despite the best efforts of science to discover it. There's no need for this if we think in terms of supervenience instead.
  • Wayfarer
    22.1k
    The decisive error in thinking now occurs when we swap or mix the levels of description. So if we suddenly switch from the physiological to the psychological level and construct a causal relationship between the two that cannot exist in reality. So if we claim that physiology is the basis of psychology, or that the excited group of neurons causes the conscious experience of red.Wolfgang

    It's not an error. The point being made in the argument is that the physical description doesn't account for the subjective experience, that it leaves out or fails to account for the subjective experience of colour. It is a fact that experience can be described from the physiological perspective or from the first-person perspective. Comparing them is not an error.

    This change of perspective is particularly treacherous because it often happens unnoticed.Wolfgang

    Not in the least. In David Chalmer's original paper it is made perfectly explicit - he calls it out.

    The really hard problem of consciousness is the problem of experience. When we think and perceive, there is a whir of information-processing, but there is also a subjective aspect. As Nagel (1974) has put it, there is something it is like to be a conscious organism. This subjective aspect is experience. When we see, for example, we experience visual sensations: the felt quality of redness, the experience of dark and light, the quality of depth in a visual field. Other experiences go along with perception in different modalities: the sound of a clarinet, the smell of mothballs. Then there are bodily sensations, from pains to orgasms; mental images that are conjured up internally; the felt quality of emotion, and the experience of a stream of conscious thought. What unites all of these states is that there is something it is like to be in them. All of them are states of experience.
    — David Chalmers, Facing up to the problem of experience
    The hard problem of consciousness can therefore be seen as a misunderstanding of the evolutionary function and development of consciousness. What we perceive as a subjective experience is essentially the evolution of a mechanism that ensures that relevant stimuli are registered and processed in an adaptive way.Wolfgang

    Daniel Dennett argues from evolutionary biology in support of eliminative materialism, which seems to be the attitude you favour. However, evolutionary psychology is also the basis of a book called The Case Against Reality: How Evolution Hid the Truth from our Eyes, by cognitive scientist Donald Hoffman, which argues for a radically different conclusion. He argues that our perceptions of reality are not accurate reflections of the world as it truly is. Instead, he proposes that evolution has shaped our perceptions to prioritize survival. According to Hoffman, organisms that perceive the world in a way that maximizes fitness, rather than accuracy, are more likely to survive and reproduce. This leads to the conclusion that what we see, hear, and experience is not an objective representation of the world as it is, but a kind of 'user interface' designed to hide the complexity of reality and present simplified, useful representations to aid survival.

    Hoffman builds his case using evolutionary game theory, demonstrating that perceptions that accurately represent reality are not favored by natural selection. He further critiques the conventional view of physicalism—the idea that the physical world is the foundation of all reality—arguing that space, time, and objects themselves are human constructs rather than fundamental aspects of the universe. Instead, he suggests that consciousness itself might be fundamental, proposing a theory in which reality consists of a network of conscious agents interacting.

    The moral of the story being, don't lean to hard on evolutionary biology in defense of scientific realism, if that's the intention. It may not take the strain.
  • Joshs
    5.6k
    Hoffman builds his case using evolutionary game theory, demonstrating that perceptions that accurately represent reality are not favored by natural selection. He further critiques the conventional view of physicalism—the idea that the physical world is the foundation of all reality—arguing that space, time, and objects themselves are human constructs rather than fundamental aspects of the universe. Instead, he suggests that consciousness itself might be fundamental, proposing a theory in which reality consists of a network of conscious agents interactingWayfarer

    Well, he’s got it partly right in talking about a network of interacting agents. But he needs to jettison the Cartesian anthropcentrism. Agency isn’t a mind or consciousness, it is perspectival patterns of interacting practices. The part of that world that humans interact is ‘true’ just as it appears to us to be, a discursive structure of performances that changes as our situated ways of interacting with it changes. Our understandings of the world aren’t ideas in the head, they are activities of engagement.All other corners of the world untouched by our participation also are agentially perspectival with respect to themselves via their interaffecting within configurative patterns of interaction. Hoffman and Chalmers still think of consciousness as an Ideal substance.
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