That's not true of every single-celled organism because do not abort other single-celled organisms. — NOS4A2
This all has nothing to do with religion to me. — Fire Ologist
an innocent human has/is Y — Michael
7. It is wrong to kill an innocent human because an innocent human has/is Y
8. It is wrong to kill an innocent frog because an innocent frog has/is Y
9. It is not wrong to kill an innocent frog because an innocent frog doesn't have/isn't Y
Y is what matters. — Michael
I don't think the first question [namely, what is a new human being] matters. I'm not an essentialist. There is no such thing as some necessary and sufficient set of conditions that must be satisfied for an organism to "count" as human. — Michael
For me, that Y concerns a sufficient degree of consciousness/self-awareness/intelligence, etc. — Michael
You are saying a human being is something that has/is a sufficient degree of consciousness/self-consciousness/intelligence. Correct? — Fire Ologist
Also, you mentioned that you’re religious. Why mention it if this has nothing to do with religion for you? Another contradiction. — praxis
You are saying a human being is something that has/is a sufficient degree of consciousness/self-consciousness/intelligence. Correct?
— Fire Ologist
No, I'm saying that humans do have a sufficient degree of consciousness/self-consciousness/intelligence, and that it is wrong to kill things with a sufficient degree of consciousness/self-consciousness/intelligence. — Michael
Non-humans might also have a sufficient degree of consciousness/self-consciousness/intelligence, and so it would be wrong to kill them even though they're not human. — Michael
What is the distinction between these two phrases? — Fire Ologist
You brought it up first, not me. I was just being open and honest and responding fully to you. — Fire Ologist
Where are you trying to go with the conversation?
The reason it's wrong to kill me is because I'm intelligent, not because I'm human; it would be wrong to kill intelligent non-humans too. — Michael
So can I assume there is some thing called “intelligent being” that we are talking about? — Fire Ologist
A religious person might say that they’re pro-life because abortion policy is a spiritual issue. — praxis
There are organisms, like me, that are self-aware, can feel pain, can want things, and so on. It is wrong to kill organisms like this.
Zygotes aren't self-aware, they can't feel pain, they can't want things. Nothing about them warrants moral consideration; they are just a tiny mixture of chemicals. It is acceptable to abort them if that is what the woman wishes. — Michael
There are organisms, like me, that are self-aware, can feel pain, can want things, and so on.
Zygotes aren't self-aware, they can't feel pain, they can't want things. — Michael
That was the first time the word “religion” was used between us.
Contradiction contradicted. Again. — Fire Ologist
You implied — praxis
are you saying a human being is an organism with enough structure to feel pain, or to just feel or perceive anything, or do you need to be able to want things and be self-aware too? — Fire Ologist
Essentialism is false. Whether we call zygotes, corpses, the brain dead. or babies born with anencephaly “human” is a choice, with no moral significance. — Michael
There are organisms — Michael
Is that a choice? — Fire Ologist
Is there any physical/biological fact in this context we both have to accept? — Fire Ologist
zygotes and adults — Michael
Do I have to see a difference between zygotes and adults in order to understand the significance of what you are saying? I think the answer has to be yes. — Fire Ologist
If you can’t see a difference between these two photos then you should get your eyes checked. — Michael
Is your position that a Zygote and an Adult Human are the same thing? — AmadeusD
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