Okay, sure, so what's the point? You don't seem to like the idea of eternal hell. Why not? Can you - a created being - decide what the just punishment is better than the uncreated God? If the uncreated God decided that eternal hell is the just punishment, why would you say it's unjust? Based on what? — Agustino
Number 2 isn't just an idea. An idea is always an idea OF something (an idea of a circle, an idea of a man, an idea of God, etc.). Number 2 is a being, an entity, which is of a different kind than material entities in this world are. — Agustino
What do you mean that "something isn't true"? Again, you're asking these questions, but you don't take into consideration how truth applies to different types of beings - you presuppose it applies in the same manner. — Agustino
Our human experience. — Agustino
Only if we limit ourselves to the "scientific" world. — Agustino
Irrelevant. Those don't claim to be transcendent as Mithras, the gods, and other spiritual realities claim to be. Instead they are empirical matters, which are indeed a matter of verification. — Agustino
Under this measure, Christianity is an abject failure. It cannot overcome human weakness for millions of unbelievers. Indeed, Christianity is constituted by the presence of human weakness, for it specifies the hierarchy of Christian (strong) and non-Christian (weak). — TheWillowOfDarkness
Why is that Christianity's failure, and not rather the failure of the unbelievers?It cannot overcome human weakness for millions of unbelievers. — TheWillowOfDarkness
I think Christianity does make death and suffering easier to bear for that matter. As Nietzsche said, he who has a why, can bear almost any how.If our concern is overcoming the weakness of human death or the suffering instituted by worldly conflict, a Christian world is amongst the greatest tragedies, a natural disaster constituting human weakness of millions of people. — TheWillowOfDarkness
Because according even to you it works for the believers? >:O So if they become believers it will work for them?Why would anyone concerned only with overcoming human weakness be attracted to Christianity as an ideal? — TheWillowOfDarkness
:DChristianity is only effective at overcoming human weakness for the Christian. — TheWillowOfDarkness
Soon we're going to get to an infinite regress of an idea of an idea, etc. This doesn't really work because obviously the number 2 isn't the same as the idea of the number 2. A circle, isn't the same as the idea of a circle. A circle is a concept, in other words, a relationship between a set of points.An idea of an idea. — Buxtebuddha
No, not at all, I presuppose this by just looking at the world. I don't encounter just physical objects in the world. Emotions for example are neither physical, nor are they ideas, and yet one feels them and encounters them. By the way, please be aware that I'm using "being" in the philosophical sense.And you presuppose that there are different types of beings based on faith. — Buxtebuddha
Why? Human experience of the transcendent is so common - our history is littered with examples of theophanies.Human experience of the transcendent? You can't know that. Pure hamfisting here. — Buxtebuddha
God in His essence is both changing and unchanging at one and the same time - obviously. I don't even know why you mention this, as if I didn't already know that the God of the Bible is a transcendent God.it seems blasphemous to say that God is unchangeable if one takes a look at scripture. — Beebert
:s As if Aquinas denied the transcendence and mystery of God... Quite the contrary, he said reason goes only so far, and ascribes properties to God ANALOGICALLY. But of course, you probably critique him without knowing all those subtleties, much like Nietzsche. It's no fun to put up a strawman and then burn it.He is not the Aristotelian God that Aquinas — Beebert
By sovereign we actually do mean someone who can actualise his will if he so desires.Or he creates the world because he so wishes, but that means he still isnt sovereignly omnipotent, because he then obeys his own wish to create. — Beebert
That's not what it says.God caused people to disobey him (Rom 11:32). — Beebert
"According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear"If they do not understand God's message it is because he has made their minds dull (Rom 11:8) — Beebert
False. Rather God prevents certain of the Apostles from preaching there. Why? Because they were meant by God to preach in different places. There were others meant to preach in Asia.God prevents the Gospel from being preached in certain areas (Act 16:6-7) — Beebert
Yes, all humans have been predestined to find their joy only in God and by serving God's purposes. Yep, our purpose was predestined and given to us before the world began. We were also predestined to exist, etc.Those who were going to be saved were chosen by God before the beginning of time (ii Tim 1:9 Eph 1:11) — Beebert
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."If a person has faith and is thereby saved, their faith comes from God, not from any effort on their part (Eph 2:9-10). — Beebert
Nope, that's not what it says in those passages. You cannot cite even one single instance of a man doing what he does because God predetermines him to do so. And even if God predetermined them, He could still hold them responsible so long as they have free will. God predetermined them to have free will too."If a person can only do what God predetermines them to do, how can God hold them responsible for their actions?" — Beebert
Well it is blasphemy because you're purposefully misinterpreting what holy Scripture says, in a manner that is quite a bit like John MacArthur to tell you the truth.And the hypocritical and evil thing seems to be to object it and call it blasphemy. — Beebert
Well yes, God has endowed them with this power, where else do you think this power is coming from?! :s Oh the devil, you're going to say. Well who endowed the devil with power?“When it comes to how we should deal with evil doers, the Bible, in the book of Romans, is very clear: God has endowed rulers full power to use whatever means necessary — including war — to stop evil,” Jeffress said. “In the case of North Korea, God has given Trump authority to take out Kim Jong Un.” — Beebert
Incomplete interpretation.If God is unchangeable and eternal and outside of time, then this must mean that Everything that has come in to existence out of him must be either only representation and appearence, or eternally existing outside of time (That again means that this world is just like Schopenhauer understood it, which would give the writers of the upanishads right), otherwise God went from Being the only Being, in to being he who created everything. Or perhaps God WASN'T before he created? Perhaps Stendhal said it best: "God's only excuse is that he doesn't exist". — Beebert
I don't know, but you keep raising questions upon questions (which have little to do with one another), and then when I answer a bunch of them, you always ignore the answers, or avoid answering the questions that I'm asking you. Below are just a FEW of the many things which you've never even bothered to answer:well what is the point with our discussion to start with? — Beebert
What's the problem? I would be punished by the Living God, not by man, and probably if God decides to punish me, then I absolutely deserve it, and would wish no different. God is the very standard of justice and truth. He is no man. — Agustino
Why? You are judged based on moral considerations, not musical and compositional skill. You can be an unrepentant rapist who nevertheless writes the greatest music. So what?! You think that somehow that excuses you?! :s You're excused from having to follow moral rules because you're "great"? What kind of nonsense is this? — Agustino
What have you done to be more precise? — Agustino
No, these are not a progression, but rather three different ways of being in the world. They are "moods" rather than paths. Kierkegaard's ultimate point is that the aesthetic mood is a forgetfulness of the ethical mood, and the ethical mood is a forgetfulness of the religious mood. In-so-far as this relationship holds true, this means that the religious mood does not deny the ethical and the aesthetical, but rather subsumes and incorporates them in itself. Aufheben. — Agustino
What's the use of that? What do you think you'll achieve with it? — Agustino
Not to mention pretty much my entire previous post..I would pray that God forgive me and spare me of that fate, but if that's what He wants, then I will accept it, for Him. Afterall, He too died for me, why shouldn't I be willing to suffer for Him if I must? It is not up to a servant to question his Master in the end. — Agustino
Yes, I am aware of that. I haven't answered them because they bring up points which are not relevant to the discussion we were having. I can address, for example, why I think Christianity is true, but it wouldn't be very relevant to our discussion here or the thread.I Think Btw that you avoided to answer basically three posts in a row that I wrote. Nay more! Five! Wow... Nietzsche proves himself to be right when I observe your behavior. — Beebert
And having that as a goal you expect us to be able to have a meaningful conversation? :PMy goal is to fool you, dominate, display that I am better, that I can go against things I despise, and most of all; that I can just spit out frustrations and boredom in text. — Beebert
My goal is to understand your position, and show you where it is and where it is not compatible with Christianity as I understand it, especially as it relates to Nietzsche.Now I ask you; what is your motive? To help me? To convert me? To prove yourself right? Or what? — Beebert
I disagree with this. If everything is subjective, then we cannot have a discussion with each other, because a discussion presupposes we will both strive to attain some objective standard and truth.it would be subjective — Beebert
You are a human being, not the living God, so there is no comparison here. You're not my Creator. I have to keep repeating this same distinction a BILLION times because you don't seem to read what I write carefully. You - a creature - cannot do what God - the Creator - can do. You are bound by the Law, God isn't.Based on the same reason why you wouldnt enjoy it if I came to your door and tortured you in various ways." — Beebert
It's His Creation. If He wants to end it one day, who are we to say He can't? :s Indeed, it would be unjust for us to tell God what He should and shouldn't do with His creation.2. Considering the first question and granted that you answer it honestly; what would you say if God tortured everyone because he found it to be fun and just? If he, because he is justice, creates mankind just in order to play with it, deceive it and torture it endlessly without saving anyone? Would you agree with calvinists that it is just? Just in what way then? You dont know the mind of God, so isnt it better to look at it from a human Perspective?" — Beebert
Reason, revelation, faith, conscience - a multitude of factors goes into judging what is just and unjust.1. On what bases do you value what is just and unjust? What is derrived from your own banality and what is derrived from the True living God? — Beebert
>:O >:O >:O And this passage:The question was: Do you see what Paul 's sentences lead to? — Beebert
Of course you fight evil with force, what do you think?! Are you crazy? You'll sit around "loving" the burglar who is killing your wife, or grab the sword and cut his head off?!Please, not YET... Now regarding fighting evil with force ... Doesnt sound very enlightened does it? — Beebert
Yes, in a different context.Wasn't it Jesus who said "Do not resist evil"? — Beebert
That's not what you said the first time. So what happened, did you change your mind, or?The matter is about the internal movements once again that causes one to act in a specific way. — Beebert
I do believe that Kim Jong Un is evil and should at one point or another be fought with force. He has enslaved all of North Korea and forces his people to live deluded and in horrible conditions. I'm quite sure that for Trump though it's about his (or America's) ego.You really believe that Trump and his insane advisor wants to fight evil with force for the sake of Good and justice? — Beebert
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