But don't simulation or modelling at the end of the day need observation to be meaningful? Simulation and modelling unobserved by humans don't exist, therefore meaningless? — Corvus
But don't simulation or modelling at the end of the day need observation to be meaningful? Simulation and modelling unobserved by humans don't exist, therefore meaningless? — Corvus
Absolutely. Models don't exclude the modeler and the modeled, they unite them. — Pantagruel
Also simulation or modeling can only be of that which is observed else it would be simulation or modeling of nothing. — Janus
Whatever the case, they all need observation by humans who record and monitor the process, and simulation and modelling wouldn't replace observation in science. — Corvus
What do you mean by historical thinking?‘observing’ facts is really historical thinking, — Pantagruel
Could you elaborate further? What numerous presuppositions for what, and why?a complex process involving numerous presuppositions — Pantagruel
But don't simulation or modelling at the end of the day need observation to be meaningful? Simulation and modelling unobserved by humans don't exist, therefore meaningless? — Corvus
Observation takes place through an apparatus of perception, which includes not just telescopes and microscopes, but conceptual apparatuses of interpretation. — Joshs
Observation is historical thinking sounded vague. From the common sense, observation is perceptual act looking for data and collecting data from the phenomenon in the world. Not quite sure what you mean by observation is theory laden either. All thought is the product of its history of conceptualization? It needs explanation as well.This basically says that observation is theory laden, so all thought is the product of its history of conceptualization (including observations). — Pantagruel
Perhaps you could elaborate further on the points from the original text?Fundamentally (observation is theory laden) it's a pretty basic concept. Collingwood expands upon it considerably. — Pantagruel
Observation takes place through an apparatus of perception, which includes not just telescopes and microscopes, but conceptual apparatuses of interpretation. — Joshs
Not quite sure what you mean by observation is theory laden either. — Corvus
As I said, it is a well-known concept; there is actually a wiki on it. I would start with that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory-ladenness — Pantagruel
You need to explain it further how and why observation is conceptual apparatuses of interpretation. Why do you need concept and interpretation when you are looking for and collecting data? — Corvus
What motivates and guides the search for and organization of data? How do we determine what is actually data and what is irrelevant? — Joshs
Are they not presupposed in all scientific observations? Reiterating those sounds like just stating the obvious. No scientific observations would be done without all that predetermined and pre-equipped unless they are bunch of bird watchers, trainspotters, or sports spectators. — Corvus
It is pre-cognitive and so cannot be taken into account. — Janus
Of course there is a sense in which our perceptions are always already interpretations. — Janus
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