(Y)There was no line in which we crossed to enter a post-truth stage. We have always been hugely consumed by lies, motives to dismiss evidence, inclined towards self-deception, manipulated propaganda, attracted to superstition, and so on. I think you can sketch out factors in which sectors of the population has gotten better in this respect and worse in others. — Saphsin
There used to be a time when more (secular)folk had a clue what counts as evidence, what counts as being justified, and what counts as being sufficient reason to believe...
Suppose I tell you my height is 6 ft tall.
How is that fact just an interpretation? — m-theory
Because you have to interpret what 6 foots means, you have to interpret what the visual image of you are.
There is observable phenomena, and the repeatability + logic = it's fact. — intrapersona
If you can't know that there is or is not objective truth then you can't claim that something is or is not objectively true.
You can only say that you don't know. — m-theory
Would you agree that Truth is relative to the beholder? An oppressor has a different truth than the oppressed, yet a truth they hold nonetheless. The oppressor may believe that he is doing all good, and the oppressed may believe that they are being treated unfairly
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and if that is the case, then you can't fight fact with truth, but you can fight truth with fact. I would say that this argument is much like my argument about the brain/mind.
however, would you agree that for someone in China during the Holocaust, their truth is that they are not experiencing the Holocaust, however, the fact is that there is a holocaust going on. Fact does not change, however, my truth is that because I look a certain way, I am treated a certain way. You may look different and are therefore treated differently, but when we come together and tell the stories about how we are treated by the same individual, our truths are different, I would closely relate truth to the experience, but I'm not saying that I am relating them or saying that they are the same thing.the Holocaust happened. That is the Truth, and those denying it are making untruthful statements. — John Harris
If you could travel back in time and ask for the definition of "truth" you would probably get different answers in different historical periods.
In other words, it is not something concrete and external like rain. It is a concept that depends on cultural context for meaning and application.
At least that is the way that I see it. — WISDOMfromPO-MO
however, would you agree that for someone in China during the Holocaust, their truth is that they are not experiencing the Holocaust, however, the fact is that there is a holocaust going on
Fact does not change, however, my truth is that because I look a certain way, I am treated a certain way.
You may look different and are therefore treated differently, but when we come together and tell the stories about how we are treated by the same individual, our truths are different, I would closely relate truth to the experience, but I'm not saying that I am relating them or saying that they are the same thing.
John Harris I'm going to go another step and say that truth is present when fact is not sufficient.
No, it's not. It's like saying euphoria is the extreme of happiness. — John Harris
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