If I take your money via taxation, then I am coercing you by forcibly appropriating your wealth for the rest of society. — Pneumenon
The egalitarian answer would appear to be a containment of everyone at the same level, so that everyone has roughly equal power over everyone else. There could be minor power differences, but there must always be the possibility of upward mobility. — Pneumenon
... it seems to me that, whether it's censorship or taxation, you are ultimately either containing someone or allowing them to contain everyone else. The egalitarian answer would appear to be a containment of everyone at the same level, so that everyone has roughly equal power over everyone else. — Pneumenon
The question, then, is not, "Is coercion acceptable?" but "When is coercion acceptable?" — Pneumenon
Taxation is not coercion in that one accepts taxation as part of citizenship. — Bitter Crank
This would seem to imply that citizenship is voluntary. That's not necessarily the case. It's the same problem as with Hobbes' social contract; when the hell did I get the choice to sign that contract? — Pneumenon
This would seem to imply that citizenship is voluntary. That's not necessarily the case. It's the same problem as with Hobbes' social contract; when the hell did I get the choice to sign that contract? — Pneumenon
If I take your money via taxation, then I am coercing you... — Pneumenon
Here it is right at the start; there is no 'your money' or your anything except by way of the social contract. We agree not to break down the fence round 'your' pumpkin patch, as long as you agree to pay 'your' taxes. — unenlightened
Remember when I said that it's a matter of when to coerce, not whether? — Pneumenon
French president insists Britain WILL face Brexit 'consequences' as David Cameron has to deny a 'conspiracy' over claims the Calais jungle could be sent to Kent
Francois Hollande claims he doesn't want to scare anyone with his warning
But amid a new scaremongering row, the PM denies there is a 'conspiracy'
France threatened to relocate thousands of migrants from Calais 'Jungle'
French economy minister claimed Brexit would provoke France into move
But Out campaign insists the move has been orchestrated to scare voters
Yes, but I wasn't really focusing on that example so much as turning it to thinking of conscience as a kind of self-coercion that is intricated in the very notion of self. — photographer
The question I'm interested in is this: given that coercion is part of what makes a bunch of humans hanging around into a society, how much sense does it make to have "minimizing coercion" as your big end-game? — Pneumenon
Ownership came into being with agriculture, because you have to invest work for future reward. So you need ownership for culture. It is always open to you to be a hunter gatherer or robber pillager. There's nothing tacit about the social contract unless you don't bother to think about it and the alternatives. — unenlightened
I brought up 'state of nature' and I think your strictures are wide of the mark. From Rousseau to Rawls thinkers have addressed these issues by working from these 'fables', because they arguably make good starting-points, they're not cunning devices conjured up by the Koch Brothers so we don't see things clearly — mcdoodle
Of course 'ownership' in a broad sense, that is, the effective control of something (and exclusivity to whatever surplus is gained from it), existed in varying forms in pre-modern times. But 'ownership' is a legal concept... — Shevek
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