Yes. In Lao Tse's time, there was no formal discipline of empirical Science. So philosophers and sages relied upon Intuition (look inward), Contemplation (observe together), or Meditation (mindful attention) to construct models of how the world works. Such practices might produce superficial (poetic) insights into how the Tao works, but subjective knowledge only becomes common knowledge when shared as objective & technical information — Gnomon

Your understanding of the Tao Te Ching is profoundly different from mine.

I most assuredly don't. But am intrigued by your so noting. Please explain if you are so inclined. I won't be back to read it for several hours, feel free to take your time.

EDIT: But I hasten to add, unless you mean the concept of biological evolution etc.

Except:

Attain extreme tenuousness — Fooloso4

I had a hard time understanding this the first time round.

And if I ever had an inkling, it is no longer shining through the dust of memory.

Would it be worth your while to explain again? My brain is turning away.

Yes. Fortunately, it is possible to reach a better understanding of actions and motivations. By ways and means...

Perhaps I'm blaming my brain when really I've had enough!
This haunting sense of deja vue...

Your understanding of the Tao Te Ching is profoundly different from mine. — T Clark

Not surprising. Would you care to elaborate?

My knowledge of Tao Te Ching is superficial, but I found it generally compatible with my philosophical understanding of how the world works . . . . as philosophical poetry, not empirical science. Declarative poetry on the art of living. TTC us the kind of writing that is open to different interpretations. :smile:

PS___I don't think of Taoism as a popular religion, as is was long ago in China. Perhaps it was a pre-scientific philosophy similar to modern Deism :
"Deism can be described as a rational, science-based worldview with pragmatic reasons for believing in a non-traditional non-anthro-morphic deity, rather than a faith-based belief system relying on the imaginative official myths of a minor ancient culture. So a Deist does not live by faith, but by reason. However, on topics where science is still uncertain (see Qualia), Deists feel free to use their reasoning powers to develop plausible beliefs that lie outside the current paradigm".
https://blog-glossary.enformationism.info/page12.html

Tao is the unmanifest hypostasis of God. The concept of Tao is close to such concepts as Emptiness in Buddhism, Ranganatha or Brahman ...
https://www.reddit.com/r/taoism/comments/105j7ep/is_the_tao_the_same_as_god/

I have always thought of naming as described in the Tao Te Ching as something humans do. — T Clark

I think there is an ambiguity regarding human action. Some of our ways are in accord with but others contrary to the Way. Naming is something humans do. To be human is to be part of rather than apart from the Way. The authors of the Tao Te Ching uses names. But

Now that there are names, know enough to stop!

I think the Tao Te Ching means what it says. — T Clark

Does it say that we bring the myriad creatures into existence? As I read it, when it says in the first chapter:

Named, it is the mother of the myriad creatures.

'it' refers back to the Way.

The Way is like an empty vessel ...
It seems to be the ancestor of the myriad creatures.

(Chapter 4)

The myriad creatures rely upon it [the Way] for life, and it turns none of them
away. ...
It clothes and nourishes the myriad creatures, but does not lord it over them.

(Chapter 34)

The Way produces the One.
The One produces two.
Two produces three.
Three produces the myriad creatures.

(Chapter 42)

I think there is an ambiguity regarding human action. Some of our ways are in accord with but others contrary to the Way. Naming is something humans do. To be human is to be part of rather than apart from the Way. The authors of the Tao Te Ching uses names. But — Fooloso4

If we need to read poems and philosophy to “get back to Nature” or “the Way”, perhaps we can never truly be “in it”, contrary to the “ways of life” of other animals.

I had a hard time understanding this the first time round.

And if I ever had an inkling, it is no longer shining through the dust of memory. — Amity

We would not expect attaining and tenuous to be joined together. They seem to contradict each other, but throughout there is a play of opposites:

Everyone in the world knows that when the beautiful strives to be
beautiful, it is repulsive.
Everyone knows that when the good strives to be good, it is no good.5
And so,
To have and to lack generate each other.6
Difficult and easy give form to each other.
Long and short off-set each other.
High and low incline into each other.
Note and rhythm harmonize with each other.
Before and after follow each other.

(Chapter 2)

... contrary to the “ways of life” of other animals. — schopenhauer1

Yup. There is at the heart of it something comical, or as some might regard it, tragic.

We would not expect attaining and tenuous to be joined together. They seem to contradict each other, but throughout there is a play of opposites:

Everyone in the world knows that when the beautiful strives to be
beautiful, it is repulsive.
Everyone knows that when the good strives to be good, it is no good.5
And so,
To have and to lack generate each other.6
Difficult and easy give form to each other.
Long and short off-set each other.
High and low incline into each other.
Note and rhythm harmonize with each other.
Before and after follow each other.
(Chapter 2) — Fooloso4

Thank you. I understand the play of opposites. Isn't this found in other philosophical, or even literary, texts where unity is comprised of interconnection and interdependence. For some reason, I'm reminded of Plato's interplay of serious and fun. The humour not always obvious.
The Ying/Yang. The natural themes of birth/death. Reason/emotion.
All make up Life as we know it. Pain/Pleasure.


I am beginning to appreciate the artistry in some translations of the TCC.

Here is the equivalent excerpt from Jane English:

Under heaven all can see beauty as beauty only because there is ugliness.
All can know good as good only because there is evil.

Therefore having and not having arise together;
Difficult and easy complement each other;
Long and short contrast each other;
High and low rest upon each other;
Voice and sound harmonize each other;
Front and back follow each other.

For me - Tao = metaphysics; quantum vacuum = science. — T Clark

Yes, i understand completely that they are two different things, but i think of them in the same way we consider quantum mechanics and relativity two different and apparently incompatible theories. However, it is obvious to me at least that, although we currently have no way of uniting these two descriptions of the universe, they are definitely connected.

So, you're going to improve on the Tao Te Ching. I'm having a hard time figuring out how to respond. — T Clark

I don’t know if one should call it an improvement on the Tao Te Ching, but rather an extension, perhaps retranslated for the modern era. I would need to convince you at least that metaphysics and science are not as far apart as you or others might claim.

I see the Tao Te Ching as metaphysics, you don't. For me, that's a fundamental and profound difference. — T Clark

I think there is a significant intersection between metaphysics and physics, particularly as both fields explore fundamental questions about reality, existence, and the nature of the universe. Many principles in physics rely on metaphysical assumptions that cannot be empirically tested. For instance, the stability of natural laws and the existence of a uniform space and time are taken as given in physics but represent fundamentally metaphysical claims.

Metaphysical ideas can guide theoretical research in physics, especially when empirical data is limited or when looking at concepts like time, causality, and the nature of particles. Theoretical constructs in physics often lead to metaphysical speculation. For example, discussions about the multiverse or the nature of dark matter, as you mentioned in a previous post, involve assumptions that extend beyond current empirical validation.

In short, while physics provides empirical insights into the workings of the universe, metaphysics offers a framework for understanding the underlying principles that govern those observations. One can inform the other.

I found that our discussion has piqued my interest in the apparent divide between physics and metaphysics, and i will be looking deeper into it in my studies. I might address this issue again in the future if i find any worthwhile insights to share. Thank you very much for your time and patience, T. Clark.

In short, while physics provides empirical insights into the workings of the universe, metaphysics offers a framework for understanding the underlying principles that govern those observations. One can inform the other. — punos

Isn't this necessary if we are to have an holistic approach to understanding life?
It's similar to what I've just discussed with @Fooloso4.
Regarding the play of opposites.
I see no reason why this would be objected to by the author/s of the TCC.

Yes. In Lao Tse's time, there was no formal discipline of empirical Science. So philosophers and sages relied upon Intuition (look inward), Contemplation (observe together), or Meditation (mindful attention) to construct models of how the world works. Such practices might produce superficial (poetic) insights into how the Tao works, but subjective knowledge only becomes common knowledge when shared as objective & technical information : i.e. Science. — Gnomon

The lived experiences of agrian life, woven into the soil, air, water, plants and animals with which humans existed, was their "science".

Nevermind me, I'm just playing the role of the DJ / Bouncer of this Thread, right now. It's all ambience from me at the moment.

[Verse 1]
How did we come to this place and time?
Our lives now ruled by a mariner's rime
We sold our souls to tell this tale
This quest for treasure we regale

[Pre-Chorus]
With the stars in the sky our guide
Voyage ever onwards
Set a course to the other side
Of the endless oceans blue

[Chorus]
Treasure Island
Oh, the legends told of a land of rum and plunder
Treasure Island
On a quest for gold we'll sail the seven seas
Treasure Island
Oh, the legends told of a land of rum and plunder
Treasure Island
On a quest for gold we'll sail the seven seas
I can't believe we're on our way
We're going there today
Yarr ahoy

[Post-Chorus]
The mate was fixed by the Bosun's pike
The Bosun brained with a marlinspike
And cookey's throat was marked belike
It had been gripped by fingers ten
And there they lay all good dead men
Like break o'day in a boozing ken

[Verse 2]
High was the price that was paid this day
We spun the wheel 'til the coppers ran dry
Nevada sun was burning bare
The stench of everclear filled the air

[Pre-Chorus]
With the stars in the sky our guide
Voyage ever onwards
Set a course to the other side
Of the endless oceans blue

[Chorus]
Treasure Island
Oh, the legends told of a land of rum and plunder
Treasure Island
On a quest for gold we'll sail the seven seas
Treasure Island
Oh, the legends told of a land of rum and plunder
Treasure Island
On a quest for gold we'll sail the seven seas
I can't believe we're on our way
We're going there today

[Solo]

[Bridge 1]
Fifteen men on the dead man's chest
Drink and the devil had done for the rest
But one man of her crew alive
What put to sea was seventy-five

[Solo]

[Bridge 2]
On the endless quest
So far into the west
Where history and destiny collide
Our luck will last forever and
The truth will never die
Prepare to roll the dice just one more time

On the endless quest
So far into the west
Where history and destiny collide
Your luck will last forever and
The truth will never die
The fates shall be eternal on your side
Prepare to roll the dice just one more time

[Pre-Chorus]
With the stars in the sky our guide
Voyage ever onwards
Set a course to the other side
Of the endless oceans blue

[Outro]
Treasure Island
Oh, the legends told of a land of rum and plunder
Treasure Island
On a quest for gold we'll sail the seven seas
Treasure Island
Oh, the legends told of a land of rum and plunder
Treasure Island
On a quest for gold we'll sail the seven seas
I can't believe we're on our way
Our destiny lies in the waves
We're going there today
Yarr ahoy — Alestorm

[Pre-Chorus]
With the stars in the sky our guide
Voyage ever onwards
Set a course to the other side
Of the endless oceans blue — Alestorm

If the Tao is eternal and there is a flow in time and space, it should not be limited to the TTC. Let it soar outside the text box. :sparkle: — Amity

In short, while physics provides empirical insights into the workings of the universe, metaphysics offers a framework for understanding the underlying principles that govern those observations. One can inform the other. — punos

Isn't this necessary if we are to have an holistic approach to understanding life?
It's similar to what I've just discussed with Fooloso4.
Regarding the play of opposites.
I see no reason why this would be objected to by the author/s of the TCC. — Amity

Absolutely, i agree. And thank you for the encouragement. :smile:

Those who want to relate the Tao to either physics or information or logos, might do well to look for those connections in the much older book, the I Ching. — unenlightened

I've done this, and it was supremely insightful regarding the binary computational nature of the universe. It actually inspired in me a new way of looking at quantum mechanics. I would get into it right now, but unfortunately, at the moment, i don't have the time. Perhaps i will at some point in the future.

I will listen to more of the Symphony later. — Amity

The following song would be something like John's political Manifesto, I would say. And I happen to agree with him, if he intended it as such. Otherwise, if I have the right to interpret it as such (as a political Manifesto, no matter if John intended it otherwise), then I would say that I mostly disagree with all of the points being made.

It actually inspired in me a new way of looking at quantum mechanics. I would get into it right now, but unfortunately, at the moment, i don't have the time. Perhaps i will at some point in the future. — punos

Cool! The tendency is usually to try to back-project distinctions we make, like that between physics and metaphysics, onto the writing of the ancients, rather than trying to understand how they would project their distinctions -perhaps between heaven and earth, forwards, and the effect of this is that though one calls the result "The Tao of Physics" it is actually more so "The Physics of the Tao.". One praises them for 'guessing right'.

What has been is contained in the present as memory (space), and what will be is contained in the potential of the present state of space, determined by the memory of the past. The future does not exist, but its determinants do exist in the present. So, in essence, this is how i define the past and present in my own understanding. Does this address the issue you raised? — punos

Yes, that's good. What a high frame rate the universe has! It's astronomical! High resolution, too.

I'm also looking to see if there is any kind of quantum guidance principle to what goes on, although the universe really seems to be a colossal waste of material, extravagant to the max, burning and exploding all over the place, and freezing in between. And today there is a big snow storm happening in New York to be followed by single digit temperatures.

So, here we go, in an entertaining video made by putting words into invideo, in generative mode, to look for clues, from creatures between man and angel, such as from the cosmic alphabet of the standard model, ending up finding a poetic uni-verse. I wish I knew more about what I meant in some of it.



Introduction

From quantum non-locality and entanglement, we know that information is more primary than distance, and that objects don’t have to have the appearance of being near each other to be related or to cause an effect.

Everything connected to everything would seem to be a ‘perception’ as far as one could be had by the entangled network. The all-at-once connections, as like in a hologram, would seem to provide for the direction of what goes on in the overall information process.

I am thinking like a yogi and a guru, the entire cosmos situated within me.

Quantum non-locality seems to imply that every region of space is in instant and constant contact with every other, perhaps even in time as well, and so the holistic universe is governed by the property of the solitary whole; thus, that could be the underlying guidance principle. An individual particle might ‘know’ something about what to do, acting according to all the others, as in relationism.

Thus both our consciousness and the holistic universe, each having a singular nature, could be the clue. Maybe they are of the same basis of fundamental consciousness, but separate, as two manifestations, each controlling a different realm, such as internal and external, our internal consciousness giving us ‘future’, and the external consciousness granting ‘future’ to the universe. I don't know which has the tougher job.

Lee Smolin has it that qualia are intrinsic, as fundamental, and Chalmers has it that information is fundamental and can express itself in two ways, in consciousness and in matter.

Quantum entanglement suggests that each particle has the entire 3-D or 4-D map of the universe, the information ever updated, the universe being as a single entity. While this may not be consciousness at the level we have, it may help the universe accomplish something of the movements of particles and fields in their energy, mass, and momentum, in some global way that goes forward overall. This may not seem to be saying a whole lot, in depth, but since the quantum realm is beneath everything then one would surmise that it must have all to do with everything that goes on.

It is still that the apparent atoms and molecules make the happenings, via physical-chemical reactions; however, this observation cannot be equated to an ‘explanation’, for we must wonder what underlies the chemical mattering and reacting that seems to have a unity of direction to it.

— Austin P. Torney


To the Quantum Depths of the Poetic Universe

I had finished with the yogis and the gurus, and the seers and the oracles only know of the future; so, I surmised, to uncover the deepness of the present, for nature and the conscious animates, I must seek out Nature’s Great Poet in her Uni-verse, in order to fully apprehend the ethereal phantasms of the entangled and enchanted branches in the forest of nature, bringing them into the light.

Fortunately, I was a poet myself, and so I could gain entrance to the elfin dell, as a human, having to first pass through the neophytes, resisting their temptations and spells; however, the sensual can often take a back seat to the intellectual, although the ecstasy can be similar.

I had been to Elf-lande once before, bringing my epic poem, ‘Flora Symbolica’, unto them, and writing up the results in ‘Elfin Legends’, and so they had bid me to return one day on a quest.

Theirs was more of an ethereal world, whereas mine was often clunky, except when I dreamt at night, and it was time for me to wander again, to ask about and better understand the quantum guidance principle, especially learning from those closer to nature and the heavens, they being the elven mixture of spirit–angel beings and humans, and thus aware of the causal nexus.

I flew to England, to the special forest fairy Kingdom, near Gallienne’s old haunts, and waited for the funnel to open up into the tunnel, and then I came out into their fairy realm and walked on for a full day, seeing no one straight out yet, just sideward waverings, but noting many new colors heretofore unknown, as there were more waves and frequencies here.

Here the blesséd and haunted old forest,
Whereat the base of an oak I rest,
While all about lay wondrous deep coverts,
And a green-turfed path that leads o’er a crest.

They all knew what I was after, as evidenced in the first encounter.

“To pass and learn of the connectedness of all things, you must kiss me, after which I’ll give you your first clue.”

The kiss vibrated deep within my being, and I felt it to my core, and then she related, “All of life’s entities embrace one another, including cells, organisms, species, and biotope”.

“Um, I have to go.”

“Stay with me tonight.”

I was on my way again the next morning, the hours having flown by, as when Einstein had sat next to a pretty girl and had noted the much quicker passage of time, over the slower passage of his instant of touching a hot stove.

I learned more as I meandered through the labyrinth of the forest and met another beautiful creature.

She said, “Hold me tight and love me, and I will unveil some of the poetic structure afterward.”

Well, two days went by, and she revealed more of my quest, “Living conscious creatures are as a poem, they ever revealing further dimensions and expressing new properties at every level of organization, via strokes, letters, phonemes, words, phrases, and sentences, in and of a uni-verse of rhythm, reason, rhyme, meter, metric, and melody. This relates to the quantum All.”

I was hungry for the continuation of life’s quantum poem, and hoped I’d be able to move on more quickly, but her allure was testing my resolve; however, she told me something very soon after we’d rubbed our cheeks together, “Meanings in life are not just discovered or gleaned by mere observation but by understanding through participation, these informationally derived meanings combined to make sense in a non-reductive process, as in the relational reality of life happening at our semantical level of syntactical information exchange, with no breaking of any of the holistic connections, all this as the epic whole of the book of nature.”

It was so still you could hear a nut fall,
And the musical strain of mystic call,
In soft tones flowered upon the silence,
As floating on the surface of the All.

“There is the particle and there is the wave—either one forced on us by our observations, being jointly known as the ‘wavicle’, all three states of which are truly not the actual reality.”

"She continued," “The actual reality is quantum fields.”

After two weeks with her, I had to survive the passage through the land of skulls and roses.

Finally, I emerged, unscathed, into the Land of Spring, and found out about more about growth.

“There are no objects that are identical with themselves over time, and so the temporal sequence remains open. Nature is a ‘possibility gestalt’, with the world forming anew each moment, from the deeper, enfolded realm, which is a unity in the sense of an indivisible ‘potentiality’ which can realize itself in many possible ways, it not being a strict sum of the partial states.”

‘Twas that time of morn when the exiled rise,
Thrown to time’s Earthly bondage through the skies,
Being for an hour their own Heavenly selves,
Their full glory unhidden by disguise.

“It still appears to us, though, that the world consists of parts that have continued from ‘a moment ago’, and thus retain their identity in time; yet, matter really only appears secondarily, as a congealed potentiality.”

These forest fairies, dryads, nymphs, and fauns,
Ever flash their nude blossoms on the lawns.
They beckon me along, for through the air
I pass thoughts of love, verses, and songs.

“In a stable configuration of matter, such as in the inanimate, all the quantum uncertainties are effectively statistically averaged out, this thus ever being deterministic; but in the case of the statically unstable but dynamically stable configurations the ‘lively’ features of the underlying quantum structure have a chance to surface to the macroscopic level.”

And so they tell more, “Physical phenomena are made of information processors that generate overlappings of correlated multi–dimensional wave fields which are propagating through time, as fields of possibility, whose intensity is a measure of the probability of an object-like realization.”

The life of her face is in her deep blue eyes,
Soft-lipped mouth, and the ears that pointed rise,
As the moon and stars reflect in a pool,
Which look as for a lifetime pours surprise.

“So, there is form before substance, relationality before a materiality that is of a secondary arising and importance, its information being primary. Impressions of realizations are left in our world by the gestalt that ‘lives’ in the multidimensional spaces of quantum superpositional possibility.”

I dive into her eyes, her soulful gate,
And worship before her heart’s flaming grate,
Midst flowers in the gardens of her dreams,
Then whirl back up through her eyes as her mate.

“There are no point masses then, but only smudged particles, such as we know of in the space-filling representations of the distribution of electrons in the shells of atoms—called the ‘cloud’.

“What remains unchanged over time are certain properties that find expression in the laws of conservation of energy, momentum, electrical charge, etc., these necessarily being closer to the basis of all.”

At last, I met the ultimate Poet, the Elfin Queen, who told, “There is a relationship structure that arises not only from the manifold and the complicated interactions of the imagined building blocks of matter, but also one that is substantially more inherent and holistic.”

She continued, “So, then, the weaves, warps, and woofs of the quantum bits as strokes makes for the letters of the elementals, as in the alphabet of the standard model, forming the words as the atoms that go on to form the molecules as the phrases, on into cells as sentences, up to the paragraphs of the organisms, and unto the stories of the species, via the unity of life’s conscious literature as the unified verse in which we live out our poems.”

I’m left with a feeling that’s no mere spell,
But a fact in Heaven that’s fancy in Hell,
Of elemental affinity’s flame,
Deeper than thought, much older than speech can tell.

I had discovered The Poetic Universe.

I headed back home, this taking a few months, never stepping into the same universe twice, or even once. Funny thing, I thought, they didn’t use poems in what they told me, but, then again, they are as living poetic forms themselves.

I live by the beach, you see.
Artificial Intelligence don't mean a thing to me.

I agree as long as you include our biological evolution in your definition of human history. — T Clark

I most assuredly don't. But am intrigued by your so noting. Please explain if you are so inclined. — ENOAH

A few years ago I read a book by Konrad Lorenz - "Behind the Mirror." It has changed my understanding of human nature in fundamental ways.

Lorenz's claim is that much of human nature is inborn and that inborn nature is mediated by natural selection. This is a quote from the book. Sorry for the length.

This is the basis of our conviction that whatever our cognitive faculty communicates to us corresponds to something real. The 'spectacles' of our modes of thought and perception, such as causality, substance, quality, time and place, are functions of a neurosensory organization that has evolved in the service of survival. When we look through these 'spectacles', therefore, we do not see, as transcendental idealists assume, some unpredictable distortion of reality which does not correspond in the least with things as they really are, and therefore cannot be regarded as an image of the outer world. What we experience is indeed a real image of reality - albeit an extremely simple one, only just sufficing for our own practical purposes; we have developed 'organs' only for those aspects of reality of which, in the interest of survival, it was imperative for our species to take account, so that selection pressure produced this particular cognitive apparatus...what little our sense organs and nervous system have permitted us to learn has proved its value over endless years of experience, and we may trust it. as far as it goes. For we must assume that reality also has many other aspects which are not vital for us.... to know, and for which we have no 'organ', because we have not been compelled in the course of our evolution to develop means of adapting to them. — Konrad Lorenz - Behind the Mirror

I later came across a paper I like even more than the book. Shorter and get's to the point sooner. Here's a link.

Kant's Doctrine Of The A Priori In The Light Of Contemporary Biology Konrad Lorenz

Every cell is a triumph of natural selection. — Carl Sagan

Not surprising. Would you care to elaborate?

My knowledge of Tao Te Ching is superficial, but I found it generally compatible with my philosophical understanding of how the world works . . . . as philosophical poetry, not empirical science. Declarative poetry on the art of living. TTC us the kind of writing that is open to different interpretations — Gnomon

I've spent this entire thread describing my understanding of the Tao Te Ching. I'd rather not do it again.

I too find the Tao Te Ching compatible with my philosophical understanding of how the world works and I recognize it is not empirical science. Unless by "philosophical poetry" you mean "metaphysics" I disagree with that.

I don't think of Taoism as a popular religion, as is was long ago in China. — Gnomon

Taoism is a popular religion in China today.

Naming is something humans do. — Fooloso4

That's how I think about it, but I'm not sure that's how Lao Tzu meant it.

Does it say that we bring the myriad creatures into existence? — Fooloso4

It says that naming brings the 10,000 things into existence. As I just noted, I think of naming - conceptualizing, making distinctions - as something people do.

...it is obvious to me at least that, although we currently have no way of uniting these two descriptions of the universe, they are definitely connected. — punos

I, on the other hand, don't think they can be united. They are completely different things. To oversimplify, metaphysics is the traffic laws, science is driving your car.

What has been is contained in the present as memory (space), and what will be is contained in the potential of the present state of space, determined by the memory of the past. The future does not exist, but its determinants do exist in the present — punos

The Trio

Memory’s ideas recall the last heard tone;
Sensation savors what is presently known;
Imagination anticipates coming sounds;
The delight is such that none could produce alone.

Like orchestras that weave their music bright,
From strings of past and present and delight,
In future notes that hover just ahead—
Our minds compose their symphonies of sight.

The senses drink the moment’s flowing wine,
While memory’s cellars store each vintage fine,
And fancy spreads its wings to catch the breeze
Of possibilities that might combine.

What echoes linger in the chambers deep,
Where yesterday’s sweet songs still softly sleep?
What present bells ring clear in morning air?
What future chimes does hope in waiting keep?

The now flows swift between what was and might,
Like rivers fed by streams of past delight,
While dreams cast forward like the morning sun
To paint tomorrow’s canvas burning bright.

Three sisters weave the tapestry of mind:
One reads the patterns time has left behind,
One threads the needle of the present hour,
One spins the gold of what we hope to find.

In wisdom’s garden, three flowers grow:
The pressed rose of the past we used to know,
The blooming lily of the present day,
The budding promise of tomorrow's show.

Without the past to give the present weight,
Without the now to make tomorrow great,
Without the dream of what is yet to be—
Each faculty alone stands incomplete.

So let them dance, these powers of the soul,
Let memory and sense make fancy whole,
For in their triple-braided harmony
Lives wisdom that transcends each single role.

The sweetest music needs all strings to play,
The brightest rainbow needs each colored ray,
And consciousness requires its triple light
To illuminate our brief and wondrous way.

All Watched Over By Machines Of Loving Grace

I like to think (and
the sooner the better!)
of a cybernetic meadow
where mammals and computers
live together in mutually
programming harmony
like pure water
touching clear sky.

I like to think
(right now, please!)
of a cybernetic forest
filled with pines and electronics
where deer stroll peacefully
past computers
as if they were flowers
with spinning blossoms.

I like to think
(it has to be!)
of a cybernetic ecology
where we are free of our labors
and joined back to nature,
returned to our mammal
brothers and sisters,
and all watched over
by machines of loving grace. — Richard Brautigan

Ok, I liked that (unsarcastically) but.. among other things which I've yet to consider, or process, my admittedly shallow review of the Lorenz you present, suggests to me, [ to which I will attach the corresponding association with the question of, which is Tao and which is the 10K things]:

1. There is a reality [Tao],
2. Contrary to the (mis)assumptions of phenomenologists, et. al., a thing can and does sense that reality as real sensory beings with real senses [Tao]
3. There must be something (presumably unique to humans) which has 'obstructed' or 'distorted' or 'displaced' (loosely/broadly) our real sensation of the real world to bring us outside of alignment with Tao, and into the so-called world of the myriad or 10k things [which I am suggesting we 'attribute to' human history].

So far---super generally---we are on the same page, right?

4. And/But Lorenz suggests that obstruction/distortion/displacement took place within the biological evolution of the human. I.E., The human cannot sense reality/tao for what it is, because its brain evolved in such a way that it obstructs it. Very interesting, if I do not misunderstand....but then, if Lorenz is scientifically correct, then why even Taoism?


(Although efforts are exerted to find the contrary) Taoism concerns itself neither with cosmology nor with questions about the structure of reality which most of our sciences purport to address. It assumes the reality of the natural universe and allows for its mystery to remain unknowable by referencing it as the way (of things/things are) or the endless changes of things.

It is not even a moral code pointing to universal Truths, nor an insight into True Reason or the Logic of Nature/Reality, because it denies their accessiblity, and, I dare say, relevance.

Rather, Taoism is a shoving, or a poking:
1. wake up, it says, there is a reality, [Tao]
2. it is your nature to be that reality (and, I reiterate, not to know it) [Tao]
3. but it's all of your make-believe, constructed and projected in an ironic and pathetic, frantic effort to know/dominate/master that reality [Tao] which has pushed you away from that reality; make-believe which, because they are functional, you have layered or superimposed upon your natural sensations, including your feelings, instincts and drives. But these are also what has caused your going astray/disorientated from the way of that reality, leading to all of your errors and sufferings. And these make-believes are not nature (hence, not a natural or necessary function of your brain/body--albeit, possible because of your brain body). They are the myriad things, which we humans make displacing reality or the Tao. Ironically, they are the Logos, or Reason, or science, economics, governance, law, or philosophy, etc etc etc, no matter how neatly they function from time to time in making the universe seem orderly and predictable. They give order to the so called chaotic (not a fair term--ultimately what are we to call it chaos or order?) Universe; they dont discover it.

Now granted,
1. it is challenging as hell to sense with our senses, and live in accordance with truth/reality/the Tao, especiallygiven how our make-believes have generated so much desire as a by-product, luring us in and owning us; but it is in our natures to be our natures, free from the fetters of our make-believes. We are not as animals, uniquely singled out aliens from another universe, nor demons born with original sin etc etc, inescapably stuck in fiction (I.e. as Lorenz suggests, incapable of sensing reality) We too are natural, and therefore it must be within our natures to be natural.
2. We can and should continue to function in human history as historical beings---taoism is not a call to live like advance apes, naked hunters and gatherers, or some sort of return to nature in that sense. One can be an investment banker, or the American President, following Tao(ism). Taoism is just a shove: wake up and realize that history (I.e. everything we conventionally accept as so called reality) is a myriad of human constructions and projections, not the Tao, but rather, things made up and believed. Go ahead and play all you like, but for Tao's sake, realize you are playing. Expect, the unexpected, be ready for the inevitable twists and turns of reality--those which, without our make-believes, we would live with just fine:pain would be painful, pleasure would be pleasurable, neither would be a long story about pain and pleasure, and a subject who is victim and victor.

If Lorenz is correct, and if we leap from his conclusions (which I think, can be restricted to, for example, a scientific explanation of the neurological---but that is so definitely not a conclusion I am qualified to make) and there is no way for us but to sense/behave unnaturally; that we are biologically doomed to be obstructed from the Tao (which would be saying the 10k things, all of what each one of us would agree are conventional things, are actually also built into our natures and therefore the Tao, thus there is nothing which is not the Tao and was right to ask/suggest that all along), then taoism's wake-up call is a farce.

I say this, noting that Taoism as an ism is ultimately a farce, as is Einstein, and all human constructions, but its wake-up call, only its shove, is not a farce. Like, Socrates is a farce, all but his wake-up call which isnt a farce.

To once again borrow from Zen to illuminate Taoism (Although as a shield against the anticipated pedantic objection, I recognize that the two are not the same), that is precisely why, first thing you do when the shove awakens you: you kill the Buddha. Because the Buddha too is a farce.