My view is that the evidence for human-induced climate change is unequivocal and undeniable, but that there has been considerable fear, uncertainty and doubt generated by various interest groups, including corporations and right-wing political groups. Their aim is to make it 'politicized and complex' and to sow doubt about the facts, and they've been successful in so doing, unfortunately. — Wayfarer
as I think there has been considerable fear, uncertainty, and doubt generated by various left wing political groups and by blackmailing tactics in academia, the aim of which is indeed to make the issue politicized and complex. So I hope you'll forgive me for being a skeptic. — Thorongil
Is that 'skepticism'? — Wayfarer
The fact of the concentration of CO2 in the environment is empirical science. It's not the consequence of a left-wing conspiracy. and the suggestion that it is, is part of the attempt to discredit the science. — Wayfarer
Here's where I am a bit more skeptical, not because I wish to deny the claim, but because I don't know enough about it to have formed a definite position. Climate science, like most other forms of science, is in fact rather complex. I certainly think humans have had an impact on the climate (how could they not?), but as for whether our burning of fossil fuels is "largely" responsible for global and regional climate change, I don't know. Most scientists say that this is the primary cause. But some of these scientists' research is paid for by ideologically driven interest groups, which is somewhat suspicious (though does not in itself invalidate said research). — Thorongil
Scientists are also discouraged from research that might be critical of the consensus view, a profoundly anti-scientific practice, given that all major scientific breakthroughs and revolutions in the past have occurred due to some individual or individuals challenging the consensus view. That, too, is somewhat distressing.
So, either way we're screwed. — Bitter Crank
Indeed. But still a smaller hell than the current path. A preemptive bubble burst might wipe out over half the population, an intolerable situation. But doing only tolerable measures will be far worse. It is the trolley problem. Do nothing and the calamity is 5x worse and history wonders why nobody acted. Do something and the weight of the consequences rests on those that altered the path and history remembers them. Heroes or Hitlers?. Probably depends if those that choose go down with their own ship.It isn't the case that no solutions can be suggested; suggestions have been made. There are two problems with the suggestions: The tolerable suggestions do not result in enough of a reduction in CO2 and other greenhouse gases such as methane or CFCs to help a lot. The intolerable suggests could (probably) result in large enough reductions in green house gases to limit warming, but would also be extremely, and intensely, disruptive to most aspects of life.
Were we to abruptly stop processing petroleum, stop burning coal, switch to a 95% vegetarian diet, sharply reduce manufacturing, begin massive reforestation projects, reduce total world population, and so on we might bring global warming to a halt -- not instantly, but in a century or so. Some side effects of this approach would probably include: Economic collapse; massive social upheavals including revolutions; extreme dislocations of population; increased deaths due to exposure to heat and cold (not in the same places at the same time); a loss of health care infrastructure; and so on, and on.
"Severe disruptions" should not suggest inconvenience; it should suggest hell on wheels. — Bitter Crank
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