But if it did ‘make sense’ to you, nothing you’ve said would prevent you from so doing. You’re not describing a moral code — Wayfarer
The capacity to grasp what could be, might be, or should be, is what distinguishes humans from other species. — Wayfarer
Crows have long been considered cunning. But their intelligence may be far more advanced than we ever thought possible.
Crows, in fact, might be like us not so much because they are clever (and so are we) but rather because they sometimes engage their cleverness simply for fun – and so do we.
The crows McCoy studies have a natural curiosity, she says. They cheekily grab scientific equipment and fly off with it in the aviary. Young birds especially, she says, love to play.
That said, “clever” animals can sometimes perform tasks beyond those strictly demanded by nature.
The bird is familiar with the individual objects, but this is the first time he's seen them arranged like this. 8 separate stages, that must be completed in a specific order if the puzzle is to be solved.
Take African grey parrots, for example: A recent study revealed that they voluntarily gave the tokens they were trained to exchange for food to parrots that had no tokens. The biologists who conducted this study were surprised when they realized that the parrots seemed to have a genuine understanding of when and why their partners needed their help—they would rarely give the tokens over when the window to exchange them for food was closed.
I conclude that nature is perceived as true because nature "is" true by definition.
— philosch
Hmmm...
... no, I think I disagree, with that statement. Here's how I would phrase it:
Nature is perceived as true because nature is true, period.
— Arcane Sandwich — Arcane Sandwich
They can do something that is artificial, cultural. They can create artifacts. Cultural objects, so to speak.
Unless of course the OP wishes to define the boundaries of nature
— philosch
The boundaries of nature...
... what would they even be?
Artifice, perhaps.
Divinity, perhaps.
Mathematics, perhaps.
Hmmm...
... I don't like the word "perhaps". Too formal. A better term is "maybe". — Arcane Sandwich
Yet people do things that do not make sense all the time. Indeed, things that are very bad for them, things that ruin their lives, and even things that kill them. We say some of these people are addicts, and that addiction is a disorder or disease. Does everyone who does things that don't make sense have a disorder?I have a personal moral code precisely because some things make sense and some things don't. — RussellA
Yet people do things that do not make sense all the time. Indeed, things that are very bad for them, things that ruin their lives, and even things that kill them. We say some of these people are addicts, and that addiction is a disorder or disease. Does everyone who does things that don't make sense have a disorder? — Patterner
Humans are animals after all. The human animal evolved from non-human animals. The human animal didn't appear ready-formed from nowhere. — RussellA
↪Arcane Sandwich Of course it's true — Wayfarer
"Different" is certainly an understatement. We are leaps and bounds above any other species of this planet.The point I'm trying to get it, is that while it's true, of course, that h.sapiens evolved from simian forbears, during the course of evolution, a threshold was crossed which makes humans very different from other species. But every time I say that, the response is, hey, caledonian crows can count! What makes you think we're so special? Which is what I'm saying is the 'blind spot'. — Wayfarer
We are leaps and bounds above any other species of this planet. — Patterner
Which is what I'm saying is the 'blind spot'. — Wayfarer
And I'm saying, that your beliefs are respectable. When have I disrespected you? — Arcane Sandwich
What's the difference between disrespecting someone's beliefs and disagreeing with them? — Janus
And I'm saying, that your beliefs are respectable. When have I disrespected you? — Arcane Sandwich
↪Arcane Sandwich I didn't say it was anyone's fault. — Janus
I hadn't expected anyone to take what I said to mean above in relation to Earth's gravitational pull. But if that's the example you want to use, the vastly overwhelming majority of humans are above the vastly overwhelming majority of sharks at all times. You would do better to use probably most any flying species.We are leaps and bounds above any other species of this planet.
— Patterner
No, we're not. You're not above a shark. Not when you swim under it. — Arcane Sandwich
You would do better to use probably most any flying species. — Patterner
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