Last I heard your president was raving with celebrities and taking drug tests. — NOS4A2

That was the former prime minister Sanna Marin, a social democrat, quite a clueless character, yet let's say an average politician that handled COVID and NATO-membership well:


Our new President is Alexander Stubb, a conservative, studied in the US, ex-foreign minister and ex-prime minister and a far better politician that is quite apt in international politics.


It's like confusing Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez with Marco Rubio. But hey, both are American politicians with Latin heritage, so not much difference anywhere in their political views or abilities, right?

JD’s historic speech wasn’t for Europeans, it was for the stuffy bureaucrats in the room, many of whom were wearing military uniforms for some reason. In fact Vance defended the European citizens who were roundly silenced by the weak commissars of European governments for the smallest of speech and thought crimes. Does anyone in the EU do the same? — NOS4A2

You think this stupid culture war rant goes anywhere near the severity of basically what just happened? How clueless can you really can be here? The country that is by a straight line 9 kilometers from myself is hellbent on building it's lost empire back by attacking it's neighbors and cutting sea cabals connecting my country to others just 40 kilometers from me. Yet then culture warrior JD Vance calls that "Russia isn't our threat", but the stupid brain dead culture war? Oh, because there's these excesses that have happened to individuals, all that culture war DEI stupidity as that would be the most important this and then he's rooting for German party of his liking?

Above all, this was a security conference, so that's why there were so many military people around, which shouldn't come to you as a surprise to NOS4A2. What I found was that Vance, as Trump, isn't interested in security policy. Nope, fuck it. Put the comments of Vance, Hegseth and Trump together and Europe has to understand that at least for this time, the US has by itself given up on it's Superpower status and seems to be doing the bidding of Putin.

Europe really has to take care of itself and has to simply to stop listening to Trump. The US is no more the leader of the West so we really shouldn't listen to it at all. Just let him alone with his tweets and tantrums. Likely Trump will get his way and get out of NATO.

The only thing the EU should do is to approach Canada and get a trade deal with it as to deal with the inevitable Trump tariffs hitting. We absolutely cannot rely on US gas exports. Canada would be a far better and trustworthy trading partner.

It’s text. It doesn’t sound like anything. — NOS4A2

The sound of silence.

Don't bother with him, he's a zealot. I think this thread would be much better if people just ignored his rants. We have to endure the constant spam of Trumploving tweets and crap, but don't feed the troll, then it gets worse.

The great stitch-up has begun.

As far as Mr. Trump is concerned, Russia is not responsible for the war that has devastated its neighbor. Instead, he suggests that Ukraine is to blame for Russia’s invasion of it. To listen to Mr. Trump talk with reporters on Tuesday about the conflict was to hear a version of reality that would be unrecognizable on the ground in Ukraine and certainly would never have been heard from any other American president of either party.

In Mr. Trump’s telling, Ukrainian leaders were at fault for the war for not agreeing to surrender territory and therefore, he suggested, they do not deserve a seat at the table for the peace talks that he has just initiated with Mr. Putin. “You should have never started it,” Mr. Trump said, referring to Ukrainian leaders who, in fact, did not start it. “You could have made a deal.”

Speaking at his Mar-a-Lago estate in Florida, he went on: “You have a leadership now that’s allowed a war to go on that should have never even happened.” By contrast, Mr. Trump uttered not one word of reproach for Mr. Putin or for Russia. — NY Times, 19 Feb

The 'initial talks' in Riyadh were about 'doing business' with Russia. You would have to wonder what kind of money Putin would put on the table for Trump Inc for such treatment.

So this is it. The great betrayal has begun. The USA will walk away from Ukraine and align itself with Putin against NATO. This is, of course, even to Republicans, a complete outrage, but who's going to stand up?

Sorry, I don’t follow Finnish politics. No matter who leads, I bet they’re beholden to Brussels.

No, I do feel bad for the EU members and all those countries who have essentially been doing the bidding of the US for decades. I don’t know why they never disengaged years ago, especially given the thankless anti-US sentiment which seems regnant there. How you can trust the leaders who have left you so unprepared to stand on your own feet while rattling their sabres and funding that war, I’m not sure, but I doubt any change is forthcoming.

But it was only a matter of time until that umbilical was cut. And now, given the totalitarian trends of those governments, it seems like the perfect time to wean yourself off the tit. Don’t you think?

Nor should the US trust trading with the EU. The U.S. has a 2.5% tariff on Europe’s vehicle imports, for example, while the EU charges U.S. imports at 10%. It’s bad when Trump does it but we’re silent when the EU does it, it seems. All they have to do is be fair and they have nothing to fear, but I don’t think fair trade is in their capacity.

, I'll just go ahead and add some observations.

In 1939, Stalin and Hitler made a deal.
In 2025, Lavrov and Rubio met, and Putin and Trump made a deal. ^{(← but I'm no prophet, so let's see)}

(More plain lying to everyone's faces, and no US politicians/leaders call'em out, except so-called "fake news"?)

Meanwhile, Putin and Trump's chummy dealings don't mention/address Russian ships roaming northern waters, so Canada and Greenland need US protection from them.

Many sellouts, much spinelessness, cowardice, hypocrisy, all that.

, you just want all of them/it to go away, right? Countries, states, laws, ... And any tidbit that can somehow be cast negatively (an exercise in rhetoric) is hence aired to that end? :D

After all the blood spilled, the enormous money spent...a lot of hearts will be broken tonight. Imagine the US combat advisers in the trenches with the Ukrainians - how will they be able to look them in the eye.

There's already something called Special Drawing Rights and there's definitive benefits to using a basket of currencies instead of USD.

Sure, but private actors can’t hold it, and I think a certain reserve gets more “popular” if both the private and government sectors can hold capital. There’s also an incentive to hold a singular currency as the more who does it, the more stable it gets. That’s why the US dollar’s gotten so stable.

No matter who leads, I bet they’re beholden to Brussels. — NOS4A2

What do you mean by that? Just remember that if Brussels or basically EU bureaucracy is whimsical and inefficient, the integration process still does have it merits. Especially after we witnessed what happened to the UK and the absolute disaster that was. Nope, post-Brexit UK was a proof that in the end, the positive aspects overlie the negative ones.

Do not fall in with your populism ideology on everything. European integration wasn't made because it serves financial gains to someone, it emerged because of the millions of Europeans killed in two World Wars. Our continental civil wars had just become so lethal that a dramatic change had to be done.

I don’t know why they never disengaged years ago, especially given the thankless anti-US sentiment which seems regnant there. — NOS4A2

Actually, there hasn't been anti-US sentiment in Europe, just as there hasn't been anti-US sentiment in Canada. Of course, that can change, even in the country you live thanks to Trump.

And now, given the totalitarian trends of those governments, it seems like the perfect time to wean yourself off the tit. Don’t you think? — NOS4A2

Just what governments are you referring to? The US with the totalitarian Trump administration which doesn't care a shit about the separation of powers? Perhaps.

It’s bad when Trump does it but we’re silent when the EU does it, it seems. All they have to do is be fair and they have nothing to fear, but I don’t think fair trade is in their capacity. — NOS4A2

I would think that now as Trump is hellbent in ruining everything, the EU should approach Canada and perhaps also Mexico. These three entities should start working on trade between themselves in order to compensate for the damage Trump is doing. I think it's extremely reckless to trust the US on anything. Trump isn't a glitch, it's what Americans want and that makes the US a very untrustworthy trading partner.

Canada could join the EU? Perhaps! :grin:

So this is it. The great betrayal has begun. The USA will walk away from Ukraine and align itself with Putin against NATO. This is, of course, even to Republicans, a complete outrage, but who's going to stand up? — Wayfarer

Aligning itself with Putin against NATO is the real issue here. But Trump simply doesn't get it.

At Doha peace talks Trump made a disastrous peace treaty (which Biden then fullfilled). Yet that was just Afghanistan. And then the US had already lost Central Asia to Russia. Now if Trump makes another disastrous peace treaty (or overtures for that), next in line is Europe.

I agree. I was just mentioning it so everybody realises that we have a real life example that works. So it's not just theoretical but a real option.

Let’s not forget Zelenskyy’s starring role in Trump’s first impeachment.


Trump clearly hasn’t.

Yep, Zelenskyi and the Ukrainians clearly wanted to be part of that thing.

Next one to try the tight rope walking will be UK's Keith Starmer. As if Trump would be interested in hearing what Starmer says. But hey, Trump hasn't yet met the new King (or at least Charles as a king), so I guess that there's something that Trump would be interested in the UK.

I think the basic problem is that too many European leaders act if Trump would be a normal political leader, which he isn't. They ought to simply be far more tougher, because with that they'll get the idiot's respect. Publicly humiliating him won't work.

If Trump invites Putin back into the fold, and it seems likely, it will thrown Putin a lifeline, just when the Russian economy was really beginning to fold under the impact of sanctions. Then if the US signs off on a 'peace deal' that gives an inch to Russian demands (as you can bet they will), Putin will say that he's had a major win, even if he didn't succeed in totally occupying Ukraine as per the initial aim. Then what? Do Ukraine and Europe try to continue the fight against a revitalised Russia without US support? Will the US say then that Ukraine are not observing whatever treaty they've tried to impose? If the UK puts 'boots on the ground' and the other European nations follow suit, it looks awfully like a war between Europe and Russia, with the US at least tacitly supporting Putin.

This is the stuff of nightmares. And it kept me awake last night. //ps thought this was the Ukraine thread, probably a better place for this issue.//

Then I'll respond to you there.

I just received an email from Social Security

"On National Slam the Scam Day and throughout the year, we give you the tools to recognize Social Security-related scams and stop scammers from stealing your money and personal information. 

Help protect your loved ones and people in your community this Slam the Scam Day by: 

Learning about the latest scams. Information can empower you to quickly recognize a scam. Signs of a scam include:
An unexpected problem or offer of a prize or benefit increase..."

Pressure to act immediately, and
A request for an unusual payment like cryptocurrency, gift cards, gold bars, and wire transfers...

@NOS4A2 must be outraged at this censorship of free speech! Surly scammers have a right to say whatever they want.

In fact Vance defended the European citizens who were roundly silenced by the weak commissars of European governments for the smallest of speech and thought crimes. Does anyone in the EU do the same? — NOS4A2

Viktor plays your song:

The globalist elites hate us, of course. The bureaucrats in Brussels, the Democrats in the US and the Soros network have set about hunting us down. They are hunting us because we have defended our country. And what have they done in the meantime? They have destroyed Europe. Brussels is sinking the European economy. Brussels is sending our money to Ukraine, to a hopeless war. Brussels has caused Europe to be overrun with migrants. Brussels has opened the gates and borders to an invasion of migrants. I remember in 2015 Soros announced that one million migrants a year should be allowed into Europe. And lo and behold: in nine years, nine million illegal migrants have arrived! Europe’s illegal migrant invasion and population replacement is not a conspiracy theory – it is a reality. As the dark joke has it, it’s time to look for new conspiracy theories, because the old ones have all been proven to be true. — ibid

Bannon sang a similar tune, especially in the Breitbart days. Is that not where you go for your "Deep State" updates?

Elon Musk says journalists 'deserve a long prison sentence' as spat with CBS 60 Minutes continues
^{— Reanna Smith · Irish Star · Feb 18, 2025}

Discredit, take over, or remove? More Putinism?
Well, all critique is "TDS", "fake news", "woke" or whatever cultural trend they dislike today, right?

Musk dreams may soon come true. In a 2023 interview by Steve Bannon, soon-to-be FBI director Kash Patel said this; "We’re going to come after the people in the media who lied about American citizens, who helped Joe Biden rig presidential elections. Whether it’s criminally or civilly, we’ll figure that out.”

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/kash-patel-said-come-journalists-now-hangs-fbi-candidacy-rcna182661

hah I thought this was a joke, but apparently not :D

‘LONG LIVE THE KING’: Trump increasingly embraces monarchical imagery
^{— Danny Nguyen · POLITICO · Feb 19, 2025}

"CONGESTION PRICING IS DEAD. Manhattan, and all of New York, is SAVED. LONG LIVE THE KING!" –President Donald J. Trump (— The White House · twitter/x · Feb 19, 2025)

Think he'll declare himself Jesus returned, too?

Americans need to know that Russia has infiltrated their President. I wonder if they know they voted to make Russia great again.

Americans need to know that Russia has infiltrated their President. I wonder if they know they voted to make Russia great again. — Wayfarer

They don't care because they don't understand anything. That's how he got there in the first place. The majority of people who got him into office are uneducated and totally unaware of anything outside their small community bubble they live in.

Democracy in the US is not working. You can't have a representative democracy when a majority of people gets manipulated into voting against their own self-interest. So many voters regret voting Trump now, why? Because the veil fell after he won and actual reality kicked in. This shows how the US isn't a real democracy. If the US wants to be, they need to install laws and regulations that makes it impossible for someone like Trump to get into power.

But the US system is lazy and without vision or interest in actual politics. The US system embraces individual powerplays, it has fine-tuned itself to only incorporate individuals who have seats of power to gain money and reputation, it's not made for actually running the country.

It's the different authorities under the government that through bureaucracy barely manage to hold the country together. And now Musk guts out these people.

In the previous Trump period, these authorities held on and did their job, but now every layer and section of the US system is infected by the stupidity of him. Maybe the "crash" I've spoken about will come sooner than I thought. When things get so bad in the US that everyone does the reasonable thing and removes Trump from office. That's not corruption, that's the logical thing to do when someone is unfit for leadership.

And if that doesn't happen, the amount of people he guts through this chaos, there will be a lot of loners affected who want retribution. If we thought two attempts on his life was much, I don't think that will slow down. With what Musk is doing, and the reckless behavior Trump shows, how many loners will attempt retribution?

It's absolute chaos.

They don't care because they don't understand anything. That's how he got there in the first place. The majority of people who got him into office are uneducated and totally unaware of anything outside their small community bubble they live in. — Christoffer

This is the problem of democracy which Plato described in The Republic, and the reason why he designated democracy as the worst, or most corrupt form of government, to be surpassed in corruption only by tyranny which doesn't even qualify as a form of government. The average citizen is not inclined to educate oneself, concerning what constitutes good leadership, and ends up voting for whoever promises to please them.

In theory, democracy looks like the greatest form of government. In practise though, politics is an extremely difficult, and time consuming field of study. If a person doesn't engage oneself in this study it is likely that one will not make a good choice in the vote. To avoid the guilt of whimsy, the voter succumbs to populism or "mob rule".

This is the problem of democracy which Plato described in The Republic, and the reason why he designated democracy as the worst, or most corrupt form of government, to be surpassed in corruption only by tyranny which doesn't even qualify as a form of government. The average citizen is not inclined to educate oneself, concerning what constitutes good leadership, and ends up voting for whoever promises to please them.

In theory, democracy looks like the greatest form of government. In practice though, politics is an extremely difficult, and time consuming field of study. If a person doesn't engage oneself in this study it is likely that one will not make a good choice in the vote. To avoid the guilt of whimsy, the voter succumbs to populism or "mob rule". — Metaphysician Undercover

Which is why I've always proposed that political philosophers need to work on a successor to our current democracy. Something that begins with democracy, but evolve it into something that synthesize the people with the politicians and bypass the biases and manipulation that is inevitable through our current systems.

If the people are too stupid, lazy or uneducated to function in a democracy, and politicians so fundamentally interested in power that they would form tyranny, if they could. Then the act of intellectuals and philosophers should be to figure out a new form of government that mitigate the problems of both paths.

As I see it, there's a problem with how many functioning democracies today, fundamentally just concluded that "democracy is the end goal", just because it exists in relation to the tyranny of the world. They can only see it in this good light because of the contrast to the evils of the world. So they're blind to the problems democracy has in itself.

If people could ignore the tyranny and authoritarianism of the world and evaluate democracy in of itself, figuring out how to evolve it to another form, then that is the key to solve the issues we see in the US today.

But even so, the US system is bad even when comparing to other democratic nations. Why does the US roll out the carpet for someone like Trump, but Scandinavian nations are able to keep the bullshitters mostly away or subdued in parliament? There's a fundamental difference in government that makes a nation more or less able to be corrupted. If the US would change its system, abandon the constitution and modernize it rather than embrace it as some form of "word of God", then things would become much better for the US and the world.

The problem is that the US fought for being independent from monarchy, but in turn created a democracy that essentially operates as a pseudo-monarchy, in which King Trump basically acts however he wants, illegal or not, and there are no consequences.

The problem is that the people and rest of government in the US, just accepts it. Rather than remove him from office. The impeachment process and consequences is just a show, it's just fiction, there are no consequences for it.

Previous presidents and people in power removed themselves and resigned out of a sense of responsibility. There was virtue in handling your power with respect and care to the nation, and that virtue was a sign of high status.

Now that this virtue is gone and there's only nihilism and self-centered interests at play, there's no guardrail against people like Trump.

You are essentially winning on being anti-virtuous. You become popular by being a "bad guy". People finds it cool and edgy. And the US system isn't built for that. The US system is built on the premise that the people in power act responsible on their own, that they act virtuous.

But the Reagan administration pushed in the extreme individualism that defined the modern era. You only have yourself to be virtuous towards, fuck the people, fuck everyone else.

So the system breaks as there are no virtuous, responsible people left and there are no actual guardrails to make sure there are, keeping the monsters out of office.

This is the core of the problem.

Expect some fire.

Expect some fire many firings. A fanatical partisan and another manifest threat to democracy.

The Red Line: - as is well known, many of Trump's executive orders are being challenged in the Courts. This includes his blatantly unconstituional freeze of Congressionally-approved expenditures, withholding monies that the Government had already agreed to disburse. This has been challenged - on the face of it, successfully - by a couple of lawsuits which have ordered the Adminstration to release the funds. However the Government has found ways of not complying with these orders, based on further arguments. But it is very close to the red line - which is that when the Government begins to deliberately defy or flout the Courts. This has not definitively happened yet, but it looks pretty certain that it's imminent in the next few days. Which will mean the Government will defy the judiciary - something which has happened only rarely in the past. Read more here:

Trump comes close to the red line of openly defying judges, experts say

Is the United States in a Constitutional Crisis?

20February25

"O Canada!" :party:

Congrats, Team "Fifty-first State", for overtime defeat of Team DOGEbag!

2025 World Hockey Champs! :clap:

At least the English press got Trump 100% correct what he is: