I had very harsh periods in my life but when I think about it I realize that it was exactly those periods that made me what I am, a stronger person. I am glad to be alive and I am thankful for all the people who contributed to my life, even those who treated me wrong, it does not matter to me now.

I am pleased you are glad to be alive.

Yes. Without doubt. That does not mean I don't, overall, enjoy my life. I have an interest in continuing to exist. But, having never existed seems to me the best version of reality.

A lot of people have periods where they wish they never existed. And some hold the view that, although they are not particularly unhappy, the burden of living isn't all that fabulous, so never having been born at all might have been preferable.

But, having never existed seems to me the best version of reality. — AmadeusD

Yes - just as I was writing the above.

In the words of Ray Wylie Hubbard - i’m not looking for God and I just wanna see what’s next.

Suicide is painless
It brings on many changes
And I can take or leave it if I please

Original lyrics to the MASH theme (removed by network TV)

Suicide is painless
It brings on many changes
And I can take or leave it if I please

Original lyrics to the MASH theme (removed by network TV) — Tom Storm

The lyrics were written by Robert Altman's son when he was 15.

Like you I love Altman's The Long Goodbye. MASH never did it for me but I appreciate its influence.

Like you I love Altman's The Long Goodbye. MASH never did it for me but I appreciate its influence. — Tom Storm

But it is a great song.

Yes, and it was a revelation to me when I finally saw the film and realised what the Network had left out.

'Wishing for non-existence' is nihilism. It's very common, but it solves nothing. The causes of existence are deep and cannot be wished away.

No. Being a consciousness of human intelligence (more or less) is the most extraordinary thing in the universe. In 13,500,000,000 years, in the universe of indescribable size, there have been an estimated 108,000,000,000 of us, and possibly nothing similar anywhere else. Being able to think and feel as we do is a rare thing, and a joyous thing.

I understand the decision to leave when suffering displaces all the good things about living.

I don't understand what it means to imagine that one does not exist or wish that one was not born. Those are activities that I have had no part in. I prefer to imagine events within I do participate.

Yes, I think my life is marginally bad now, and expect end of life to be horrific.

Interesting that 45% also say they with they never existed. Surely this is an argument for antinatalism.

Interesting that 45% also say they with they never existed. Surely this is an argument for antinatalism. — Down The Rabbit Hole

Do you have a source for that information?

No. Being a consciousness of human intelligence (more or less) is the most extraordinary thing in the universe. In 13,500,000,000 years, in the universe of indescribable size, there have been an estimated 108,000,000,000 of us, and possibly nothing similar anywhere else. Being able to think and feel as we do is a rare thing, and a joyous thing. — Patterner

This is what I meant to say before I pushed the post button by mistake.

There are some of us who think the world is a wonderful place and others who think it is a place of endless misery or at best indifference. None of us will ever convince people who disagree with us our way of seeing things makes more sense.

There are realities where I probably have committed suicide by now. But not this one, I've found a pathway out of my most abysmal hours.

most likely, but even still, I prefered using antinatalism more as an argument against my ignorant parents when I was a kid, before I even knew what (anti)natalism was... it offended me that my parents would give birth to me with so little regard to me afterwards. Even though always present they were still, oddly enough, absentee parents. Never making an effort to ever know me. All while expecting me to live a certain way that I decided I never agreed to do so. To live to a way of life that made me feel sick to my stomach.

I'm a bit of an antinatalist, but I still voted No.

The poll in the OP.

I have never found myself wishing I had never been born. For myself the interesting in life outweighs the boring, the enjoyable outweighs the distasteful and the pleasure outweighs the suffering. Of course, I've suffered through dark periods, and I have a dark side that is always there, but I find those prices acceptable.

So "nothing" sound pleasant?

In some jurisdictions you can sue for "wrongful life" when your suffering could have been avoided had the medical professionals advised your parents of a medical condition and they not had you.

Arguably, this could be widened to suffering not caused by a medical condition, in which case the parents would be liable. There was an antinatalist in India that said he was going to file suit for it.

There are some of us who think the world is a wonderful place and others who think it is a place of endless misery or at best indifference. None of us will ever convince people who disagree with us our way of seeing things makes more sense. — T Clark

You are correct. But Truth Seeker asked, and that's my answer.

I don't understand what it means to imagine that one does not exist or wish that one was not born. — Paine

I don't understand when people don't understand this. :wink:

Being a consciousness of human intelligence (more or less) is the most extraordinary thing in the universe. In 13,500,000,000 years, in the universe of indescribable size, there have been an estimated 108,000,000,000 of us, and possibly nothing similar anywhere else. Being able to think and feel as we do is a rare thing, and a joyous thing. — Patterner

Who cares? A series of zeros has no impact upon me.

I hold a largely positive view about the world - for the prosperous Westerner (which I am) life is good and mine has been mostly without difficulties and yet if I were faced with the improbable thought experiment - the choice of never having been born or living this life, I'm not convinced I would pick life.

Agree.

No. Soon enough ... it'll be the case again that I/we have never existed.

:up:

:up:


:death: :flower:

This is a question that can only be answered by the context of nonexistence. To answer fully, one must understand the perspective of never having existed, and so the question somewhat becomes absurd.

If we answer that we wished we never existed, we're wishing for something in which we cannot perceive the other side of that question. Does a non-existent being wished to exist?

I also think the question needs to be asked in context. Like, for a person in great physical pain, tremendous suffering, the context changes the nature of the question.

It should be asked in the context of neutral experience. If I, as a neutral perceiver of reality would answer the question, I would say no, I would not want non-existence.

Because the negative of being robbed the ability to even contemplate that question through non-existence, makes existence more valuable as a concept as it gives me the ability to contemplate the question. Therefore, existence is preferable.

On a personal level, also no. The terror and absolute horror of death is the horror of non-existence. I think that people overvalue "non-existence" as something able to be perceived as some "place" of non-suffering existence, but it's not, there's nothing, an absolute void of the being itself.

I think people who wished for that state has set a context around that wish that has nothing to do with the concept of existence vs non-existence. Either it's about relief from pain and suffering, for which there exists ways within life to overcome, even if society is often bad at handling people who suffer. Or it's framed as a message to others, like a threat or promise to other people that my non-existence will either "show them" or "heal them", which is a concept that is simply nonsensical when following it to its logical conclusion.

No, I'm really opposite the notion of non-existence. I would never wish for it as even entertaining the idea of my mind slipping into non-existence in death is an absolute blackness of horror. The only negative thing about my existence is the awareness I have of the concept of non-existence. It gave me perception of my original state and the horror is losing everything back into it, oblivion.

This is part of why I dislike religion so much. Even if someone isn't religious or spiritual, so many people have still been indoctrinated into a concept of non-existence being perceivable in some form. That is a "state of being" when it's nothing at all. So when people say they want to end their lives to end their suffering, they fundamentally still believe that it is an end to something in the way we perceive ends as a living being, in that we experience something ending and then beginning anew.

That we can perceive the relief of our existence ending, when there's nothing there to perceive it. I rather perceive my suffering than perceiving nothing at all.

Like the poem Aubade by Philip Larkin (here read in the series Devs)

...not seeing
That this is what we fear—no sight, no sound,
No touch or taste or smell, nothing to think with,
Nothing to love or link with,
The anesthetic from which none come round. — Philip Larkin

Who cares? A series of zeros has no impact upon me. — Tom Storm

Again, Truth Seeker asked a question, and I answered. In all honesty, having an impact upon you hadn't entered my mind.

Indeed. Soon enough, after this extremely brief period of existence, we will all not exist for eternity.

Interesting I wasn't aware, in fact, my father should have done this to his father, who had a few million to his name, via business, but he destroyed my father's dreams and family to go off with his secretary. But my father always was spineless in standing up to his pops.

And so my father went on his way to become independent, but was ultimately torn to piecemeal by a cavern dwelling minotaur of consciousness... My father stopped eating and drinking a few weeks ago. I creamated my father last week, so no need to for me to do such a thing. My mother is sweet in all her ignorance, and doubly innocent due to it, even if she was peculiarly absent. She was there, but never really could fathom me, or even my sister. She doesn't even realize that sometimes her advice is so insulting, regardless, I can't bring myself to hate my parents, especially not my mom.

I am not a nihilist. I just wish I never existed. I am happy for others to exist. In fact, I have saved and improved many lives over the years through my work and blood donations, money donations, etc. I am also on the Organ Donation Register for donating all organs so even in death I will be saving and improving lives. I have been suffering from CPTSD for 42 years and 3 months, Bipolar Disorder for 27 years and 6 months and chronic nerve pain for 16 years and 7 months. So, I am no stranger to suffering. I think life is full of suffering, inequality, injustice and deaths. 99.9% of all the species to exist so far on Earth are already extinct. 100 billion out of the 108 billion humans born so far are already dead. The rest will die, too. I wish I never existed but I had no say in the matter of my coming into existence. I wish I could make all living things forever happy but I can't. I wish I could prevent all suffering and death but I can't.

Serious question. Not at all sarcastic, or intended in any negative way. Why did you make the OP?