I find it sad that some Americans have failed to learn from the Soviet experiment with socialism and communism. Alas, I think it's safe to say that Bernie Sanders stands virtually no chance to win against Hillary, or in the general election. This flirtation with socialism is a one-time event.It was twenty-five years ago America defeated communism and any ideas of socialism with it. Yet, here we are today with a serious Democratic candidate arguing, successfully, for socialism in America. Isn't that rather amazing? I find this relieving as opposed to the rather constant pessimism hereabouts about the human spirit/condition/nature.
Times are changing for America, possibly for the better?
EDIT: Wow, I must be high. I first wrote 16. Had to revise that to 25. I guess I can't do math. Haha. — Question
Yes, the SCOTUS is key, and it needs a couple more liberal judges, at least. By "liberal" i mean, understanding that the constitution was framed in 1776, the founders addressed the situation as they saw it in 1776 (figuratively speaking), and 200+ years later, possibly -- just possibly -- new circumstances abolish old certainties. By "liberal" I mean taking the position that corporations are not persons with rights to behave as they wish; that individuals and organizations who control a great deal of money shouldn't be able to sped any amount of money as they see fit on political campaigns. And so on... — Bitter Crank
I hear this childish remark all the time: we don't live in 1776, or we don't live in the Middle Ages anymore, etc. etc. Of course. But what does this have to do with our conservative tradition, which is what made us great in the first place? You know, without those rich white people that you hate, you wouldn't even have the nuclear waste dump to throw their ideas into. Where has the respect gone in today's world?Because we don't live in 1776 anymore and it turns out that almost every idea rich white people had were bad ideas that should be shredded and thrown into a nuclear waste dump? — discoii
Yes it has. There's many brown, black, Asian and all other colors and races that have done well in America. The period of slavery was an unfortuante period in history, but you cannot keep blaming that forever from now on for the condition of people. Slavery has ended. And some people have done amazingly well. There's many black millionaires in the US, people of color, people who have worked really hard to do something great for themselves and for their communities. There are many black people today who aren't doing well - that is true. But that to a large degree is the result of the environment they have grown in, combined with the wrong choices that they have made.Here's the thing: America has almost never been 'great' for brown people or most poor white people. So, the benefits that you received have almost all gone to you and no one else. I'd advise you drop the entire notion of America being great. America was built on the back of slaves, and today it is profiting off the back of world-slavery. People living in it are unhealthy, in debt, and distracted by nonsense. How is that great? The fact is that it isn't all that great. There are greater places I don't respect lies. — discoii
Well these advances did come from rich people, full stop. Only rich (not white, but rich - we've had some amazing geniuses coming from other parts of the world, especially China, India and the Middle East) people have ever had the time to be thinkers and scientists. Everyone else has been pre-occupied with the jobs of daily life, and this isn't something bad - the world can't be full of scientists and nothing else. So you should at least be thankful for these people, and realise that a large part of the good that you share in today is due to rich people. Sure, rich people have also done a lot of harm to the lower social classes, but that doesn't mean there was no good.As for scientific advances, you can't just stroll on down and give all credit to rich white people. These advances came from thousands of years of effort from people globally, and didn't require divine right rule, slavery, or any of that other nonsense to come into fruition. — discoii
Yes it is not great anymore because it has lost virtue, and by losing virtue it has lost everything worth having. That's why people need a MORAL education first and foremost... they need to learn about the sins of gluttony for example, then they will no longer spend their money on food that makes them fat. They need to learn discipline, courage, integrity... then America will indeed be great again!People living in it are unhealthy, in debt, and distracted by nonsense. How is that great? The fact is that it isn't all that great. There are greater places. I don't respect lies. — discoii
Conservatives" have no monopoly on legal traditions. There are, side by side, liberal traditions and conservative traditions. Conservative courts are as likely to abolish someone's preferred traditional interpretation as liberal courts are. — Bitter Crank
it turns out that almost every idea rich white people had were bad ideas — discoii
There is no progressive tradition. Such a thing does not exist. — Agustino
From the French Revolution, which by the way, for your information, was not started by the poor people. It was started by people like Georges Danton and Maximillien Robespierre (who by the way was the first to use the words liberte egalite fraternite) who came from well-to-do, respectable families - not wealthy, but nevertheless well-off, noble families. Robespierre's grandfather for example was a well-known lawyer at the time. So let's see how virtuous Robespierre was... yeah, he ordered people to be killed by the guillotine ...Where did liberte, egalite, fraternite originate, if not from the poor of Europe, or the anarchic tribes of Africa, America, Arabia, and Asia? — discoii
Nope, political philosophy, including the idea of equality, originated in the writings of rich people.We would not have even the proposition egalite if it weren't for poor people. — discoii
What does the Vanderbilt/Carnegie family own in the US today? :) They're not even in the billionaire list :) ...Vanderbilt and Carnegie — discoii
A leader has good and bad parts. People aren't perfect. Many of those leaders (including the Founding Fathers) were certainly much better than any of the modern leaders including Bush, Obama, Clinton, etc. This is after we include their defects in the analysis.These are not the actions of brilliant, virtuous individuals. — discoii
This is just historically false. Sorry to have to put it this bluntly. I understand that you may be upset, but it's just not true.I repeat: no good political ideas that came out of the rich white men that founded the United States are there as ways to advance humanity as a whole, but these good ideas, free speech, religious freedom, originated from poor and oppressed peoples--not those assholes. — discoii
This is very socialistic, but I DOUBT even BC will agree with you, and we all know his motto is "workers of the world, unite!" :P ....Once again, for the last 500 years of human history, the least trustworthy and the most brutal of all people were rich white men. Ideas that advanced humanity, brought humanity forward, were found among the poor and downtrodden, who conspired against them. They slowly incorporated these ideas, filtering out the good parts, and keeping them in name in legal form, while slowly forming an apparatus around them so that these human tendencies towards freedom can be controlled. — discoii
Yes, you should be thankful to those thinkers. The poor and dead thinkers that you want have never existed. Poor people work to get food, they don't have time to think. They were out there ploughing the fields, they didn't have time to sit down, learn to read and write, study philosophy, and develop ideas... You think the rich have a hatred for the poor or something. But this is not true...And I should be thankful for Newton, Leibniz, Wittgenstein, Hume? What of all the poor and dead thinkers, probably better thinkers--who knows?--whose potential was stifled through the hierarchy? — discoii
What does the Vanderbilt/Carnegie family own in the US today? :) They're not even in the billionaire list :) ... — Agustino
Once again, for the last 500 years of human history, the least trustworthy and the most brutal of all people were rich white men — discoii
Was the American constitution (the good parts) itself not drawn, in a huge part, from the Iroquois? — discoii
Where did liberte, egalite, fraternite originate, if not from the poor of Europe, or the anarchic tribes of Africa, America, Arabia, and Asia? — discoii
Once again, for the last 500 years of human history, the least trustworthy and the most brutal of all people were rich white men. Ideas that advanced humanity, brought humanity forward, were found among the poor and downtrodden, who conspired against them. They slowly incorporated these ideas, filtering out the good parts, and keeping them in name in legal form, while slowly forming an apparatus around them so that these human tendencies towards freedom can be controlled. — discoii
We have a tendency to assign credit to these men, but the fact is that they drew from the work of others. Oh, these are great men, they say. They are brilliant men, one of a kind! Well, to hell with that, the mere existence of great men in oppressive societies means the stifling of millions of other great humans. I will take their ideas, and be rid of their names and association, because we are still living the rich white male hierarchy, and this sort of credit-giving continues the narrative that we are supposed to live, after systematic white-washing over generations. — discoii
the mere existence of great men in oppressive societies means the stifling of millions of other great humans. — discoii
Twisted sisters aren't much good for anything. — Bitter Crank
I find it sad that some Americans have failed to learn from the Soviet experiment with socialism and communism. — Agustino
Lots of men and women in the West are fervent supporters of bloodstained setups. Christians, for example. Nor is it unknown for decent, compassionate types to support whole civilisations steeped in blood. Liberals and conservatives, among others. Modern capitalist nations are the fruit of a history of slavery, genocide, violence and exploitation every bit as abhorrent as Mao's China or Stalin's Soviet Union. Capitalism, too, was forged in blood and tears; it is just that it has survived long enough to forget about much of this horror, which is not the case with Stalinism and Maoism. — Terry Eagleton
I should use them, because they are working and they have a great track record. So does religion... — Agustino
From the French Revolution, which by the way, for your information, was not started by the poor people. It was started by people like Georges Danton and Maximillien Robespierre (who by the way was the first to use the words liberte egalite fraternite) who came from well-to-do, respectable families - not wealthy, but nevertheless well-off, noble families. Robespierre's grandfather for example was a well-known lawyer at the time. — Agustino
You are quite predictable, Agustino. No matter how many great things you claim of religion - some of which have some truth in them, some of which are exaggerated, one-sided, misleading, or even just plainly false - your claim that religion has a great track record is preposterous given it's exceedingly long track record of horror, backwardness and oppression. Hence my reaction. — Sapientia
I don't, but most people do. It is silly if you think that most people have the time and the intelligence required to discover moral right and wrong alone and by themselves without guidance. You don't expect people to discover Newton's laws of motion by themselves, why do you expect them to discover morality by themselves?? If science deserves to be taught in schools, then morality deserves to be taught EVEN MORE! So this progressive meme: "hurr hurr, we don't need religion to determine moral right and wrong, hurr hurr" is nothing but nonsense. It's like saying you don't need science textbooks to know and understand Newton's laws of motion. Yes you do!No, it isn't. It's redundant and often counter-productive. If you feel you need religion to determine what's right and wrong, then that's worrying. — Sapientia
Yes they do pale in comparison. You should be aware that without the Church, we wouldn't even have the society we do today. Single-handedly, the Church has probably been one of the most unifying forces in history. All the atrocities you cite (which by the way are mostly during the Inquisition, and are otherwise much fewer than you imagine) are mere footnotes to the good that the church has done.And the separation of Church and State was relatively recent in history. The dominant role of the Church has a much longer history, and one which includes far more atrocities in the name of religion than the inquisition, so no, those committed in the name of Communism don't pale in comparison - they don't even compare. — Sapientia
I don't, but most people do. It is silly if you think that most people have the time and the intelligence required to discover moral right and wrong alone and by themselves without guidance. You don't expect people to discover Newton's laws of motion by themselves, why do you expect them to discover morality by themselves?? — Agustino
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