"Everyone sees that love is a desire, and we know also that non-lovers desire the beautiful and good. Now in what way is the lover to be distinguished from the non-lover?" — GregW
Nobody ever said that the desire for the beautiful and the good makes the world go round. Of course, "love" requires an object. Free-floating objectless love is... what? — BC
Isn't love more than lust, more than physical or sexual desire? — GregW
I saw in his hand a long spear of gold, and at the iron's point there seemed to be a little fire. He appeared to me to be thrusting it at times into my heart, and to pierce my very entrails; when he drew it out, he seemed to draw them out also, and to leave me all on fire with a great love of God. The pain was so great, that it made me moan; and yet so surpassing was the sweetness of this excessive pain, that I could not wish to be rid of it. The soul is satisfied now with nothing less than God. The pain is not bodily, but spiritual; though the body has its share in it. It is a caressing of love so sweet which now takes place between the soul and God, that I pray God of His goodness to make him experience it who may think that I am lying.
Like when I walk along the river on a sunny day, I can not help but be overwhelmed by a good feeling and feel gratitude for this experience. — Athena
I don't know how it is for others, but when I was young, I was much more needy than I am now. I would expect a person's notion of love to change with age. — Athena
"love" requires an object. — BC
I think free-floating objectless love is enhanced by beauty. — Athena
a Grecian urn — GregW
Beauty is truth, truth beauty,—that is all
Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.
Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. — Jesus
Beauty is truth, truth beauty,
Unenlightened, you are advocating that love is painstaking and sacrifice.Concerning the object of one's love, one is painstaking. — unenlightened
BC, you are advocating that love is lust and trust.Love is a combination of lust and trust — BC
Athena, you are advocating that love is feeling.I feel loved simply because I feel love. — Athena
You are saying these are parts of love. But what is love as a whole? — GregW
We have now distinguished the lover from the non-lover, but the eternal questions remain. What is love? Is love a mighty God, or is love a desire? And what is the beautiful and good that is desired and beloved by all? — GregW
I'm in my fifties and so far absolute categories of 'good' and 'beauty' have never really come up or mattered. — Tom Storm
But good and bad, beauty and ugliness are subjects that we experience govern our everyday lives. — GregW
Because it goes beyond the limits of self it is beyond the ratios of comparison and attains to the immeasurable. In this sense, to answer you question in a way satisfactory to the rational mind would be to set a limit to the illimitable. — unenlightened
You are raising idea of transcendentals - I have no good reason to believe in ideals or values which transcend ordinary experince or material reality. — Tom Storm
I do not agree that love is immeasurable and illimitable. Love is an experience shared by all. I am leaning into Plato's claim that love is a desire, a desire for the beautiful and good. — GregW
Well the best of luck with that. We don't have to agree. — unenlightened
I am leaning into Plato's claim that love is a desire, a desire for the beautiful and good. — GregW
Love is an experience shared by all. — GregW
Plato believed in transcendentals (the forms in his language) and thought there was an ideal form of love (along with beauty and goodness). I don't. — Tom Storm
some people never experience love — Tom Storm
some people never experience love
— Tom Storm
I can't understand why you believe that "some people never experience love". Are you saying that some people never experience the desire for the beautiful and good? — GregW
As for the beautiful and the good—no doubt some people attempt pursue these abstract notions through things like porn or sport, perhaps? — Tom Storm
Indeed, I work at delaying it. I am still delighted to learn new things. My current book is "The British Are Coming: From Lexington to Princeton". I've heard American history since 7th grade, but now I'm finding the (new) gory details of the revolution from both British and American POVs fascinating. It took 78 years to get here, but I'm glad to have arrived. — BC
Do you know this for certain? I’ve worked with a lot of career criminals and gang members, and I would say that some people never experience love and, as a result, may not be able to give or receive it. — Tom Storm
Leaving a baby alone in a crib for extended periods, especially without interaction, can negatively impact their development and ability to form healthy attachments, potentially leading to emotional and behavioral issues. While it's natural for parents to need time for themselves and to adjust to a new routine, neglecting a baby's need for interaction and emotional connection can have detrimental consequences.
You are saying these are parts of love. But what is love as a whole? In what way is love to be distinguished from its parts? — GregW
The term "love hormones" often refers to hormones involved in social bonding, emotional connection, and feelings of pleasure and attraction. Specifically, oxytocin, dopamine, and serotonin are key players in the experience of love and attraction.
Running, along with other forms of exercise, can significantly impact the release of hormones in the body, including those associated with feelings of pleasure, connection, and well-being. Specifically, running can boost endorphins, dopamine, and oxytocin, which contribute to the experience of the "runner's high" and overall mood enhancement.
I agree with you both. Love is the love of something and not of nothing. I believe that something is beauty. Beauty can be manifested in a man, a woman, or a Grecian urn. And if the beautiful is also good, then love is the love of the beautiful and good. My question is, what is the nature of the beautiful and good that is beloved? — GregW
In ancient Greek philosophy, "good" (agathos) and "beautiful" (kallos) were closely intertwined, often considered aspects of a single ideal called "Kalos Kagathos," meaning "beautiful and good". This ideal emphasized a balance of inner and outer excellence, encompassing both virtue and physical beauty.
Greek philosophers like Plato and Aristotle believed in the power of music to shape character, educate, and even influence societal well-being. They saw music as having ethical power, arguing that specific musical modes and styles could influence emotions, character, and even the development of good citizens.
Proportion, particularly when measured by the "golden ratio," is a concept that has been used to describe beauty across various fields, from art to architecture to even facial aesthetics. The Golden Ratio, approximately 1:1.618, is often seen as the most aesthetically pleasing proportion, and its application can be found in many works of art and design.
I’m saying that they are abstractions because they are not physical things, they are ideas and there are dramatic variations in what people recognise as good or beautiful, — Tom Storm
The beauty and goodness that can only be witnessed in a winged chariot through the "heaven above the heavens". This beauty [s undisputed and undebatable. — GregW
Beauty and goodness are the defining attributes of beautiful and good things. — GregW
Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.