"Judged from a scientific and logical perspective, the belief that we stand outside the causal web in any respect is an absurdity, the height of human egoism and exceptionalism. We should get over the idea that to be real agents we have to be self-created..."
Do you see that?
The "belief that we stand outside the causal web in any respect is an absurdity", and we should cause ourselves to "get over the idea that to be real agents we have to be self-created".
Do you see that?
It is absurd to believe that we are outside of C, but from outside of C we should... — WISDOMfromPO-MO
There is always this contradiction in determinism, but nobody--preaching determinism or criticizing determinism--ever seems to be aware of it. — WISDOMfromPO-MO
I remember Searle brought this point up in one of his lectures. He said someone once asked him if proof of the non-existence of free will was shown to him would he accept it. To accept it presumes the existence of free will because otherwise he couldn't "accept" it, it would already be determined whether he did or not. — JupiterJess
Of course, this is the ultimate silliness of the determinist philosophy/religion. The Natural Laws that are determining everything is arguing with itself trying to convince itself that it is determined after having convinced itself, through some illusion, that it has created, that it has some free will. — Rich
In quantum physics 'uncaused' events are common place. — Mike Adams
Determinism is based on Newtonian mechanics, which is now superseded by quantum physics. In quantum physics 'uncaused' events are common place. The question is whether any 'control' can ever be exerted over quantum events. If so this could provide the metaphysical wiggle room that free will requires. — Mike Adams
'Experiencing' choice does not necessarily entail true choice in the metaphysical sense. The human experience is rife with illusion — Mike Adams
No, determinism had no foundation as does the idea that there is no choice. It is an explanation that is indistinguishable from Calvinism. — Rich
There is nothing necessarily supernatural about phenomenal illusions. They happen all the time - just ask the amputee who still 'feels' the missing leg. — Mike Adams
As for your utter disavowing of any type of determinism I would ask you this: if my conscious choices are in no way guided by my established psychology, how are they my choices. — Mike Adams
And this has nothing to do with what you were saying earlier. "Having your cake and eating it"? "The Natural Laws that are determining everything is arguing with itself trying to convince itself that it is determined after having convinced itself, through some illusion, that it has created, that it has some free will."? What do these (almost nonsensical) claims have to do with this later claim that determinism is inconsistent with quantum mechanics? — Michael
"Judged from a scientific and logical perspective, the belief that we stand outside the causal web in any respect is an absurdity, the height of human egoism and exceptionalism — WISDOMfromPO-MO
. We should get over the idea that to be real agents we have to be self-created..."
decision making procedure which explains why you 'chose' say the apple instead of the banana — Mike Adams
your action was truly neutral then your choice would be random luck and no demonstration of free will — Mike Adams
then what steers the choice one way or another? — Mike Adams
And how (scientifically speaking) does the 'creative mind' - which is presumably a physical entity - generate atomic motion without any form of preceding causation? — Mike Adams
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