Because his regime murders women for not wearing hijabs.

Yes, but Israel is the land where Jesus walked. And John the Baptist.

Because his regime murders women for not wearing hijabs. — BitconnectCarlos

That doesn't mean the people of Iran hate their government.

You seem to be under the impression that the people of Iran are insane fundamentalist muslims. I don't think that's right. I think they're only being ruled by insane fundamentalist muslims.

You seem to be under the impression that the people of Iran are insane fundamentalist muslims. I don't think that's right. I think they're only being ruled by insane fundamentalist muslims. — BitconnectCarlos

I guess there's supposed to be some kind of argument in there somewhere, but I was looking for facts.

I think they're only being ruled by insane fundamentalist muslims. — BitconnectCarlos

Much like Israel is only being ruled by insane Jews. Still, a lot of support for that genocidal government too.

It must be nice to have nothing to stand for; no nation or power you stand by.

It's a simple formula, I see:

1) Have no allegiance to any nation or power. To do so, one becomes tainted with their sins.
2) Be hypercritical of the West. This demonstrates your superior virtue. In judging them you place yourself above them.
3) Be silent on the most degenerate elements.

Easy.

What's also a war crime is targeting a nuclear, civilian facility. Reciprocity excuses Iran's attack under rules of conflict but humanitarian law has been trying to ban it (not very successfully yet).

On the other hand, I suppose I should applaud you on discovering the principle parties shouldn't be attacking civilians. Now if only you could manage to apply it consistently.

It must be nice to have nothing to stand for — BitconnectCarlos

There you have it folks. Add to the list above: if you’re against genocide (when committed by Israel), you stand for “nothing.”

Surely you could hear similar critiques in Nazi Germany too. Ironically.

When will the UN condemn the deliberate targeting of Israeli civilians? The intentional targeting of civilians has always been wrong.

My position regarding the morality of strikes on civilians can be summarized in the doctrine of double effect. This has been my long-standing position.

Iran still capable of firing rockets at Israel? That doesn't sound good for Bibi. Fact is that Iran is a huge country. Israel is already starting to cut off videos of missiles hitting Israeli cities. Wartime censorship seems to got more tighter.

I think if/when Iran starts to hit bomb shelters large malls, schools, which naturally are public information, then you can make the argument of them being like the Russians. It's simply the systematic nature: not one hospital, all of them. Like in Gaza.

Now it seems Iran is trying to hit the Israeli SAM sites, which isn't as easy as it sounds when using medium range artillery missiles. If there's a night/day with no missiles, that would be telling.

Still, the body count in both countries, even in Iran, is rather low.

Boring troll. :yawn:

As a regime, Iran is more depraved than Russia, and I'm no fan of Russia. It would be like, take the repression of Russia, and combine it with the fact that the government will throw girls in jail for removing their hijabs and often rape them before executing them (to ensure they don't get into heaven.)

Iran would hit more hospitals if it could; it's just a matter of the Iron Dome stopping them. This now raises the question of whether one's ineffectiveness makes one good/morally better: Is an assassin who is thwarted ethically superior to one who's not?

Yes, the nice thing about Iran is that they don't launch their missiles from apartment complexes and hospitals, so we can expect casualty counts not to be too high. :sweat:

Boring Nazi. :yawn:

:lol:

:lol:

Yes, you've made it quite clear you don't understand double effect. It's not a stand alone concept. For people with a normal sense of morality, leveling nearly all civilian structures is disproportional even under the concept of double effect. Plus it buys into the propaganda that that is what they're doing when it's quite clear what they're really doing isn't going after Hamas targets but trying to get all Palestinians to leave. Which is genocide. Which is illegal. Which is what is in the Likud charter. Which has been reiterated by cabinet members repeatedly. Which you happily ignore because you "stand for something".

To target specific buildings or SAM sites by medium range artillery missiles is very difficult. You have a lot of difficulty in making the final corrections. But one can notice that the CEP (Circular error probability) is rather low, measured perhaps in some fifty to some hundred meters (meaning the radius that 50% of the missiles hit). Hence Iranian missiles are far improved from the Scuds, which were 1950's technology.

What can be noticed is the difference between the "normal" ballistic missiles, which rapidly decrease their speed once hitting the lower atmosphere and those that then have a motor for the last leg, usually referred to being hypersonic glide vehicles. The difference is notable, and also is the difficulty for anti-ballistic systems to get them.

Also what is noticeable is that the range between Iran and Israel is such that basically the ballistic trajectories don't take the missiles into space. The can be seen flying over Iraq and Jordan.

Tables turned, for now. Previously I remember Israelis watching from the Golan Heights the civil war in Syria. Now Lebanese and Jordanians can watch the Iran-Israel match above their sky.

Here we go again...

I suspect Israel's response is proportionate because Hamas has militarized its entire society as well as built an extensive underground tunnel system. When you militarize civilian structures, they cease being civilian and become military structures. If we look at casualty numbers, it's around 1:1 or 2:1 - historically speaking, humane. As you know, the Gaza Health Ministry does not distinguish between civilians and combatants in its figures - a fundamental concept in war.

It's strange how people note the extensive destruction in Gaza and then demand that Gazans stay put. Their concerns aren't humanitarian, but political.

I sympathize with any ethnic group seeking to recover their ancestral homeland, as Judea and Samaria are to the Jews. Israel has much history in Gaza as well. I don't support forcible expulsion, but the Gazans should be given opportunities elsewhere since Gaza is a war zone.

As for genocide, let me know when Israel strips their Arab citizens of citizenship or expels them. There's no essential difference between Israeli Arabs and those living in Gaza. Israel is at war; there is no genocide. Israel has said it will not forcibly expel Gazans. I do not want to see forced expulsions, but even if forced expulsions occur it's an abuse of language to call that genocide and it's nothing near what Jews went through under Nazi Germany.

No, I would imagine the decision-making process is that they had a window of opportunity to act while Iran's proxies were largely defeated and when they would not face significant additional pressure from third parties for carrying out the strikes. Obviously, internal politics could be another factor.

My guess is that they will keep degrading Iran's air defenses and missile capabilities, trying to reach a point where they can keep inflicting costs on Iran without facing significant costs in return. Iranian missile volume is already down significantly. The goal is probably to signal an open ended commitment to destroying their military and oil infrastructure until they agree to negotiate a settlement that ends the nuclear program. Barring that, there is the idea of the US destroying the main enrichment facility or Israel doing it with a cargo plane after having fully degraded Iran's air defenses (which is probably risky and might not work), or, unlikely, an air assault operation to destroy it.

Iran was already in a precarious political situation due to major, violent unrest across the country aimed at the government. Iran is only about 60% Persian and there are separatist groups Mossad has been able to use in the past for additional pressure.

In the past year or so Iran has also had open battles with the Taliban over water rights and been bombed by Pakistan, so they sort of have issues in all fronts due to the type of foreign policy they have pursued, but obviously the successful decapitation strike on Hezbollah that forced them to make a separate peace, the collapse of the Assad regime, loss of influence in Iraq, and now this has made them significantly more vulnerable, which explains the timing as well.

Interesting, thanks! Isn't there a concern that blowing up nuclear materials will pollute the area?

Russia warns US against 'military intervention' in Iran-Israel war
^{— France 24, AFP · Jun 19, 2025}

Putin condemned Israeli attacks on Iran ... Meanwhile in Ukraine :brow:

A growing number of Iranians and pro-Iran people have been calling the Kremlin names (e.g. untrustworthy, traitor, useless), due to not helping. Maybe their warning is partly related to that.

If the Iranian theocracy falls, the Kremlin could be impacted: some drone supply, oil/money laundering lifeline (revenue), diplomatic shield, some satellite + intelligence-surveillance-reconnaissance infrastructure, strategic outpost-foothold in the Middle East.

EDIT: added some potential impact to the Kremlin

If anything US involvement in Iran benefits Putin. Gas prices will go up and the US will forget about Europe. There's also China too, but that's another matter.

, yep could be. I'm guessing they don't want to see the Iranian regime fall, though.

Yeah that's a concern for them but at this point I don't see the regime surviving anyways, not in it's current form and not with the current relationship with the Kremlin.

Trump's war is coming closer, more B-2 Spirits are deployed forward:

(UK Defensejournal) U.S. Air Force B-2 stealth bombers have departed from Whiteman Air Force Base in Missouri with aerial refuelling support from eight KC-135 Stratotankers.
The aircraft appear to be heading toward Diego Garcia, a strategic U.S. military base in the Indian Ocean.

Flight tracking data shows two groups of four tankers each linking up with the bombers over Kansas. The B-2 aircraft were using the callsign “MYTEE21,” which has previously been associated with stealth bomber missions.

The movement comes during a wider repositioning of U.S. military assets toward Europe and the Middle East. In recent weeks, dozens of American aircraft, including fighters, tankers, and surveillance platforms, have been deployed to the region. Two U.S. Navy supercarriers are also operating forward, along with other naval and air force elements.

Seems also that Iran is still launching missiles into Israel.

(Reuters) Early on Saturday, air raid sirens were triggered across parts of central Israel and in the Israeli-occupied West Bank, with missile interceptions visible over Tel Aviv and explosions echoing.

What intrigues me in all these wars is the low esteem these groups have for Americans. They most probably take Americans for fools. Everyone knows the US is heading to a new war, and they pretend that nothing is decided yet and if it happens it will not be a big thing, since Americans "always knew" that the Iranian regime has to go at a point.

This is really mind-boggling in a country that wishes to be remembered as the "best democracy in the world".

I hope the real patriots and the real democrats in the US stop worrying about the name of the next president, or the slogan of the next protest, but start thinking how to transform some US institutions (like courts, Congress, electoral college and, especially, sponsorship of politics).

Although it perfectly makes sense to vote in local elections, voting in presidential election does not make sense to me anymore. A president may win the popular vote in this country, he may have the 80% of population hating wars and people like Netanyahu, and at the same time this president or the Congress may feel free to do things that all Americans hate.

What kind of democracy is this? When will we see some politicians & activists pushing for sweeping reforms in this country? How can you have your country free from the Israeli and NRA lobbies if you don't reform elections funding?

Well, that happened.

Guess we can lose the question mark…Welcome to Trump’s new war.

Congratulations to Democrats for the next election!

There was a feeling that with the MAGA winning the popular vote, the Democrats had lost their electoral base for years to come. Those anti-ICE and No Kings rallies were seen as desperate moves from a Democratic party that has lost pace on real issues.

Now, with Trump's unpredictability, betrayal of America First values, etc., the Democrats will feel vindicated and strong again. Vindicated because within five months of his presidency, Trump is stunning Americans and the whole world; and he shows a total disregard for those 90% of Americans who oppose another Middle East War.

AOC will become the first female POTUS, I guess
lol

I didn't vote in November, but I see that with this outlandish & wicked administration, we will live in a constant crisis for the next four years. Nothing good can come from these childish imbeciles.

I remember Shock and Awe all too well in 2003, but what is Iran going to do about this? Does the ruling regime take the diplomatic offramp or escalate by attacking US bases that aren't protected by Iron Dome? Do they interrupt shipping in the Strait of Hormuz? Iran's neighbors and allies are not coming to their defense. Iran doesn't seem to have any good options.