But isn't the life of Socrates one of actively hunting for the truth by perpetually questioning things?[/b] — Valentinus
I assume in each case some principle which I consider strongest, and whatever seems to me to agree with this, whether relating to cause or to anything else, I regard as true, and whatever disagrees with it, as untrue (Phaedo 100a)
Cicero's Republic is a dialogue in winter, where they seek the sun, and the Laws is a dialogue in summer, where they seek the shade. Socrates seeks the sun in summer, when it is hardest to bear; he seeks the light of the sun at its strongest. In accordance with that he prays to the sun at the end. Let us not forget that the sun is a cosmic god (p. 277)
In the tenth book of the Laws Plato presents what one might call his theology and also his political doctrine regarding gods. It consists in a substitution of the gods of the cosmos for the gods of the city. The impiety which is to be condemned is the impiety against the gods of the cosmos, but not the impiety against the gods of the city. We can say Plato substitutes a natural theology for a civil theology
Your efforts fail to support your thesis. — Valentinus
He conceived a thought there and stood from dawn considering it, and when he couldn't make any progress, he refused to let up but kept on standing considering. It was now already noon, and the soldiers became aware of it, and in amazement one said to another, 'Socrates has been standing there since dawn reflecting.' Finally, some of the Ionians, when it was evening, once they had dined, - it was then summer - brought out their bedding and slept in the cold while keeping watch on him, to see whether he would stand also through the night. He stood till dawn and the sun came up; and then he went away after he had prayed to the sun (220c3-d5)
Unified Germany doesn't seem like this bully with imperialist aspirations, because it hasn't got them, — ssu
In the Republic, Socrates expresses uncertainty if he has adequately depicted the Good. — Valentinus
But the Imperial glory of annexing Crimea back got to Putin, and this finally woke NATO from it's deep stupor. Before that NATO was all about international operations and nothing about deterrence and defence of it's member states. Now it's not. Crimea and the civil war in Ukraine made things worst. — ssu
It was irrational of Britain in the 1850s not to stay neutral, let Russia try to fend off France while perhaps learning a small lesson about whatever that was about, not bolster Turkey (which would have genuinely benefitted from modernising then and not in the 1920s). — Fine Doubter
I answer your questions when they are directed to comments I make. I don't when they refer to arguments you are having with others. — Valentinus
The inquiry does lead to aporia. — Valentinus
I challenge you to answer my question without reference to what other people might have said. — Valentinus
Pakistan, the old US ally which was both in CENTO and SEATO, then an important ally to the US when Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan, is the most interesting case here. It has portrayed itself as an ally in the war on Terror and yet basically founded the Taliban. Yet it didn't fall into the category of a "Rogue Nation". Perhaps it's nuclear deterrent helped in this. — ssu
So, Turkey didn't announce what you said they announced. — hairy belly
He conceived a thought there and stood from dawn considering it, and when he couldn't make any progress, he refused to let up but kept on standing considering. It was now already noon, and the soldiers became aware of it, and in amazement one said to another, 'Socrates has been standing there since dawn reflecting.' Finally, some of the Ionians, when it was evening, once they had dined, - it was then summer - brought out their bedding and slept in the cold while keeping watch on him, to see whether he would stand also through the night. He stood till dawn and the sun came up; and then he went away after he had prayed to the sun (220c3-d5)
The call to not accept ignorance as a final condition are the closing words of Socrates in the Gorgias — Valentinus
If Socrates is ignorant regarding the things above and the things below, namely, Forms and Hades, then nothing he says about such things can be taken at face value — Fooloso4
Who is putting pressure on Pakistan? I guess nobody is. — ssu
And yes, Erdogan tries to be active everywhere: Syria, Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan. — ssu
Nobody that I know of characterizes the unfolding of the Dialectic to be antithetical to contemplation of an ultimate reality. — Valentinus
But Pakistani Prime Minister Imran Khan said yesterday, Wednesday, in statements to foreign media in Islamabad - after talks with Turkish Defense Minister Hulusi Akar - that his country is making efforts to facilitate talks between the Taliban and Ankara.
"The best thing is for Turkey and the Taliban to have a direct dialogue, so that the two sides can talk about the reasons why Kabul airport should be secured," Khan added.
Turkey has offered to deploy troops at Kabul airport after NATO withdraws and has held talks with the United States for weeks. In exchange, President Tayyip Erdogan has asked for financial, logistical and diplomatic conditions to be met.
In a televised interview with broadcaster CNN Turk on Wednesday, Erdogan said he could meet with the Taliban as part of efforts to end the fighting in Afghanistan.
"Our related institutions are making efforts that could extend as far as some meetings with the Taliban... I could even meet the one that will be in the position of their leader," Erdogan said
That is translated as 'wisdom', although the 'jn-' particle is an etymological cognate with the 'gn-' of gnosticism. In Buddhism, it is understood as a real, practical insight into the principle of dependent origination. — Wayfarer
I think, possibly, the Platonic forms or ideas are not so remote or mysterious as many are making them out to be. One clue for me is platonism in mathematics. — Wayfarer
Socrates seeks the sun in summer, when it is hardest to bear; he seeks the light of the sun at its strongest. In accordance with that he prays to the sun at the end. Let us not forget that the sun is a cosmic god
Immersed in some problem at dawn, he stood in the same spot considering it; and when he found it a tough one, he would not give it up but stood there trying. The time drew on to midday, and the men began to notice him, and said to one another in wonder: ‘Socrates has been standing there in a study ever since dawn!’ The end of it was that in the evening some of the Ionians after they had supped—
this time it was summer—brought out their mattresses and rugs and took their sleep in the cool; thus they waited to see if he would go on standing all night too. He stood till dawn came and the sun rose; then walked away, after offering a prayer to the Sun (Symp. 220c-d)
For decades, Pakistan has served as a sanctuary for the Afghan Taliban, who have often crossed the countries’ rugged, 1,660-mile border with ease. Officials have acknowledged that Taliban fighters maintain homes and families in Pakistan, at a safe distance from the battlefields …
Pakistan has leverage that it is not bringing to bear, government officials in other countries say. It still allows Taliban leaders free movement into and out of the country and continues to serve as a safe haven where fighters and their families can receive medical care, they say.
Some critics, particularly in Afghanistan, accuse Pakistan of actively supporting the Taliban’s offensive, saying that the insurgents could not have mounted such a large effort without assistance. On social media, the hashtag campaign #SanctionPakistan has gained popularity in Afghanistan and among the diaspora.
We shall believe that the soul is immortal and capable of enduring all extremes of good and evil, and so we shall hold ever to the upward way and pursue righteousness with wisdom always and ever, that we may be dear to ourselves and to the Gods both here and in the hereafter (Rep. 621c)
My position is, as I'm not wedded to physicalism, then I'm open to the possibility of higher states of being or higher knowledge, but I can't claim to know them as a matter of fact. — Wayfarer
If so, I repeat my previous statement that such a view is at odds with Socrates' willingness to pursue ideas despite such difficulties. — Valentinus
Don't you think it's also revealing that you wish to dissociate Plato from anything religious whatever? — Wayfarer
Let us not forget that the sun is a cosmic god ... In the tenth book of the Laws Plato presents what one might call his theology and also his political doctrine regarding gods. It consists in a substitution of the gods of the cosmos [e.g. the Sun] for the gods of the city
The issue is, a thorough-going secular philosophy has no imaginative domain which corresponds with 'the mystical'. In a secular system, 'the mystical' is synonymous with nothing, nonsense, non-being, it's a placeholder or a frightening vacuum which the gullible seek to fill with religious beliefs. — Wayfarer
But at the same time, whatever philosophy we have, has to be able to accomodate the genuinely novel discoveries of science since the 17th century. So we have to thread the needle between the two extremes of dogmatic belief systems on the one hand, and scientific materialism on the other. — Wayfarer
Saying that an inquiry leads to aporia is not equivalent to stating that the purpose of it has been cancelled. — Valentinus
I never said anything of the kind. — Valentinus
The inquiry does lead to aporia. — Valentinus
It seems like you want to cast the limits of our understanding, that Plato brings to our attention, to be actually some sort of catechism to something else. — Valentinus
I find that possible also. But how that construction would work for folk troubles me. What would be the fundamental base of that moral system? From where morals would come from? And how we could convince people follow it without any God "punishment"? — dimosthenis9
One thing that puzzles me about this last statement is that it doesn't square with your efforts in other places to see Plato presenting a unified theory of the soul. — Valentinus
But if we are guided by me we shall believe that the soul is immortal and capable of enduring all extremes of good and evil, and so we shall hold ever to the upward way and pursue righteousness with wisdom always and ever, that we may be dear to ourselves and to the gods both during our sojourn here and when we receive our reward, as the victors in the games go about to gather in theirs. And thus both here and in that journey of a thousand years, whereof I have told you, we shall fare well (Rep. 621c-d).
So are we sure that world would be a better place without religions?! — dimosthenis9
Training by going to war is a disastrous policy as you are then spending a lot of resources. Far better to train without your soldiers getting dead. — ssu
Don't try a military solution when you need a political solution. — ssu