It is well documented that Koine Greek was popular in his day. Aramaic just so happened to be his native tongue. So yes I do believe Jesus gave his lectures in Aramaic. — Dermot Griffin

The linguistic and cultural milieu in which Jesus operated was Hellenistic.

Hellenistic Judaism was a form of Judaism that combined Jewish religious tradition with elements of Greek culture.

An important element of Greek culture was philosophy.

The convenient term "Hellenistic" employed here signifies complex amalgamations in the Near East in which the Greek ingredient was a conspicuous presence rather than a monopoly.
“’Judaism,’ it need hardly be said, is at least as complex and elastic a term. The institution defies uniform definition. And changes over time, as in all religions, render any effort to capture its essence at a particular moment highly problematic. "Hellenistic Judaism" must have experienced considerable diversity, quite distinct in Alexandria, Antioch, Babylon, Ephesus, and Jerusalem-also a feature common to most or all religions. Simplistic formulations once in favor are now obsolete.
We can no longer contrast "Palestinian Judaism" as the unadulterated form of the ancestral faith with "Hellenistic Judaism" as the Diaspora variety that diluted antique practices with alien imports.

- Erich S. Gruen, Heritage and Hellenism: The Reinvention of Jewish Tradition

The real life of ‘philosophy’… had left the schools and gone into the marketplace and onto the streets of the big cities … In the imperial period the army of wandering missionaries or philosophers had become legion. All of them competed with each other, advertising their art in order to attract disciples, and outdid each other in demonstrations of their power … Such missionaries competed even within the same religious or philosophical school … pagan, Christian and Jewish philosophers of this sort did not address the educated establishment but the common people, that is anybody they could meet in the streets….

- H. Koester, Introduction to the New Testament

That Greek was the lingua franca of the Graeco-Roman world and the predominant language of the Roman Empire is acknowledged by virtually everyone who has considered this issue, although the full significance of this factor has not been fully appreciated by all New Testament scholars … Although Nazareth was a small village of only 1600 to 2000 in population, and it relied upon agriculture for its economic base (see Jn. 1:46, which might well be supported by what we know of the physical remains), it is not legitimate to think of Jesus as growing up in linguistic and cultural isolation … All of these factors are consistent with what we know of Jesus' own life and that of his followers … Jesus' being a carpenter or craftsman (Mk. 6:3), economically a middle level vocation, is consistent with the economic and cultural climate of the region, in which reciprocal trade was widespread.
This means that for Jesus to have conversed with inhabitants of cities in the Galilee, and especially of cities of the Decapolis and the Phoenician region, he would have had to have known Greek, certainly at the conversational level … It can be firmly established that Jesus did speak Greek and that we do indeed have some of his actual words. Once this has been established, then it can be seen that there are several other passages that may well record the words of Jesus, including the scene in Caesarea Philippi, when Jesus endorses Peter's confession that he is the Christ. In several of these contexts Jesus is recorded as speaking to others who plausibly did not speak a Semitic language, and where no translator or interpreter is indicated (see also Mt. 8:28-34; Mk. 5:1-20; Lk. 8:26-39).
The evidence regarding what is known about the use of Greek in ancient Palestine, including the cosmopolitan hellenistic character of lower Galilee, the epigraphic and literary evidence, including coins, papyri, literary writers, inscriptions and funerary texts, but most of all several significant contexts in the Gospels, all points in one direction: whereas it is not always known how much and on which occasions Jesus spoke Greek, it is virtually certain that he used Greek at various times in his itinerant ministry. It is probable that we have his actual words in Mark 15:2 and parallels, and may well have a passage of his teaching originally delivered in Greek recorded in Matthew 16:17-19 …

- Stanley Porter, Did Jesus Ever Teach in Greek?

Please do some fucking philosophy instead of this low-quality nonsense you're trying. — Christoffer

You may not be aware of it, but doing philosophy is precisely what I'm trying to do.

Problem, you see, is that in order to philosophize you need to have the facts first, otherwise it's all just empty speculation.

If you ignore the facts and dictate to others what they should think, that's an approach that isn't going to get you very far.

My advice would be to acquaint yourself with the facts, especially established and well-known historical facts, first, and then attempt to philosophize.

If you knew the facts, then I'm sure you'd agree with me that Putin has got a point. To take the example of a trial in a court of law, you'd need to take into consideration both sides, not just one. Very simple and easy to understand, really.

So, demonstrate (a) that you have knowledge of the relevant historical facts and (b) that you are willing to engage in an objective and balanced conversation. If not, then there is nothing I can do for you ....

As already stated, Greek "influence" on Jesus consisted in his making use of the Greek language and the Hellenized culture of Roman Palestine.

Hellenistic influence increased after the destruction of the Second Temple, which is why synagogues with mosaics representing themes from Greek religion and mythology began to appear throughout the region:

Following the destruction of Second Temple Judaism, the dominant form of Judaism practiced in Judea at the time, a Judaism centered around the Temple, disappeared. Hellenistic Judaism became the dominant form of Judaism in the Holy Land in the following centuries, as the mosaic-adorned synagogues attest.

The Metamorphosis of the Sun God in Ancient Synagogues in Israel – Haaretz

Huqoq is located about three miles west of Capernaum, the Galilean town where Jesus taught in the synagogue and near where he gave the Sermon on the Mount … The mosaics decorating the floor of the Huqoq synagogue revolutionize our understanding of Judaism in this period. Ancient Jewish art is often thought to be aniconic, or lacking images. But these mosaics, colorful and filled with figured scenes, attest to a rich visual culture as well as to the dynamism and diversity of Judaism in the Late Roman and Byzantine periods …

Stunning Biblical Mosaics Discovered in Ancient Synagogue - Patterns of Evidence

In other words, there was growing Hellenistic influence from 305 BC into the early centuries of the Christian Era, followed by a counter-movement in Christianity and Judaism alike, that sought to eliminate that influence, as evidenced by the anti-Greek polemics of Tertullian and later authors. There is nothing unclear or contradictory about it whatsoever.

The question of Plato himself being a prophet is irrelevant. According to Plato, knowledge has a divine origin, the divine Form of the Good being the source of all knowledge (Republic 508e1-4), and philosophers and prophets can be inspired by it. “Prophet” (prophetes) is a Greek word originally applied to those who communicate the will of God (Zeus) to man!

Well, you can say whatever you like, but I for one think it is irrational to blame others for your failure to understand simple statements that have been explained to you already.

You said that what I believe doesn’t matter. If that’s the case, then I think it would be more logically consistent for you to ignore my statement than to go on and on about it, ad nauseam.

Incidentally, as a matter of principle, you shouldn’t get upset just because someone’s views differ from yours. The whole purpose of discussion forums is to have a plurality of views, not to throw temper tantrums when others disagree with you.

It’s understandable to be upset that Zelensky is losing, but (1) it isn’t my fault, (2) I don’t see why this is of concern to Finland, and (3) according to some, Zelensky is a thug as are the oligarchs behind him, as explained on the other thread, which is why a more balanced, rational, and less emotional, analysis would be preferable.

As regards Putin’s alleged intention to rebuild the borders of the Russian Empire, (a) I see no evidence to support that claim and (b) as already explained, Ukraine has always been part of Russia, both Ukraine and Russia having been part of the same territory called Russia or “Land of the Rus(sians)” (роусьскаѧ землѧ, rusĭskaę zemlę), a.k.a. “Kievan Rus”.

The fact is that Ukraine became separated from Russia only after being invaded and occupied by foreign powers (Mongols, Lithuanians, Poles). It follows that Putin has a point and his views need to be taken into consideration even if we disagree with his actions. IMO a discussion based exclusively on the views of countries like Finland (or any others) that have nothing to do with Ukraine is not a proper discussion. But if you think it is, go ahead, I’m not holding you back …. :smile:

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

If people were to ask you to explain every one of your pronouncements, it'd take a whole separate forum - with Finnish translation attached!

The basis for my belief ought to be evident from the context and from my previous posts. It isn't my fault that you still don't understand. At any rate, you may rest assured that I'm not going to waste my time with another discussion on it.

And no, I don't need to assume that everything Russia says is "propaganda" at all. That is just part of your usual repertoire of weasel words and straw men.

The expression "Athens and Jerusalem" refers to the difference between the authority of reason versus revelation. It is not a polemic against Greek influence. — Fooloso4

Perhaps you should learn how to read before commenting on other people’s posts. :smile:

Please note that I said “Athens vs. Jerusalem” which does in fact refer to the perceived conflict between (a) Greek philosophy (= Athens) and (b) Judeo-Christian revelation (= Jerusalem), and goes back to Tertullian’s Against Heretics (the title itself says it all) where he argues that the former has no place in the latter:

Heresies are themselves instigated by philosophy. From this source came the Aeons, and I know not what infinite forms, and the trinity of man in the system of Valentinus, who was of Plato's school … What indeed has Athens to do with Jerusalem? What concord is there between the Academy and the Church? what between heretics and Christians? Our instruction comes from "the porch of Solomon," who had himself taught that "the Lord should be sought in simplicity of heart." Away with all attempts to produce a mottled Christianity of Stoic, Platonic, and dialectic composition! (7.3, 9-11)

So, very clearly, it has to do with a Judeo-Christian rejection of Greek influence and subsequent attempts to “de-Hellenize” Christianity. This has culminated in a range of spurious theories to the effect that the Gospels were originally composed in “Aramaic”, that Jesus “couldn’t have spoken Greek”, and other historical and logical aberrations.

Oh sure, women can objectify, though that doesn't necessarily mean that objectification is natural. — _db

Well, I think animals in general have an innate tendency to regard other animals as objects to (1) fuck, (2) eat, or (3) run away from. :smile:

Of course, one could put a Marxist-Feminist spin on it if one really wanted to, but I for one am not particularly convinced, to be honest ....

I think it all hinges on how you define "objectification" and on whether it is something practiced exclusively by men ....

While China's and Russia's goals and situation are not exactly the same, I think it is safe to say that they are not all that different. — dclements

The funny thing is that, historically, the term "imperialism" has been used in reference to 1800's Britain and France, and continues to be mainly associated with the West:

The term was and is mainly applied to Western and Japanese political and economic dominance, especially in Asia and Africa, in the 19th and 20th centuries.

Imperialism - Wikipedia

I think political, economic, and considering NATO, military dominance today is primarily exerted by the West, not by Russia. Any discussion that fails to take this into account is bound to be biased and not particularly balanced, IMO.

Well, if you want to go by the "forum rules", perhaps you ought to apply them to yourself first ... :smile:

For your rhetorical "question" to have any merit, you would need to show that there was a logical necessity to assume that there might be "a will to restore Russian empire borders". You haven't shown that, so you're wasting your time.

As I said, in historical terms, the West is much more likely than Russia to have imperialist intentions.

And, anyway, Ukraine was Russia even before the Russian Empire.

From the 9th century, Russia, Belarus, and Ukraine (which simply means “borderland”) were one country which was known as “Rus-land” or “Land of the Rus(sians)” (роусьскаѧ землѧ, rusĭskaę zemlę), and which became the core of the Russian Empire:

Kievan Rus - Wikipedia

Please refer to the other thread (Ukraine crisis) where I discussed this in detail, should you have any further questions.

Or try reading some history instead of baseless pro-NATO propaganda .... :wink:

The West is so used to acting in bad faith that they cannot even conceive that someone else would not do the same. — baker

Absolutely correct. Who had the largest empire in history with colonies all over the world, plus millions of black slaves and Indian, Chinese, and Irish servants? Britain, not Russia!

And isn't the EU trying to rebuild the Roman Empire?

The whole blame-game accusing Russia of "imperialist" intentions is clearly designed to smokescreen the West's own imperialist actions. After all, it's NATO and the EU that have been constantly expanding, not Russia.

Enlargement of NATO - Wikipedia

Enlargement of the European Union - Wikipedia

Union for the Mediterranean - Wikipedia

I think you have some serious comprehension problems there. My exact words were:

I still tend to believe that Russia would have taken no action if its demands had been met from the start. — Apollodorus

As stated already, there is no logical requirement to assume that everything Russia says is "propaganda" any more than it is to assume that everything America (or Finland) says is propaganda.

I'm not going to keep repeating myself just because you've got nothing else to do ....

How do you know this? This would require you to first assume that any will to restore Russian empire borders are false. — Christoffer

On the contrary, there is no requirement, logical, legal, or otherwise, to assume that there might be "a will to restore Russian empire borders" in the first place! :grin:

Jesus is the central figure of Christianity. Although Christian views of Jesus vary, it is possible to summarize the key beliefs shared among major denominations, as stated in their catechetical or confessional texts. Christian views of Jesus are derived from various sources, including the canonical gospels and New Testament letters such as the Pauline epistles and the Johannine writings. These documents outline the key beliefs held by Christians about Jesus, including his divinity, humanity, and earthly life, and that he is the Christ and the Son of God …
Most Christians believe that Jesus is both human and the Son of God

Jesus - Wikipedia

At any rate, the evidence indicates that Jesus spoke Greek and made use of Hellenistic cultural elements because that was the common language and culture at the time ....

Well, if that's what you think then you're on the wrong thread here! :lol:

The OP states in clear and unambiguous terms:

Several biblical scholars, my two favorite being John Dominic Crossan and Burton Mack, suggest that Jesus was influenced by Hellenistic thought. I think the connections are logical. — Dermot Griffin

By the time of Jesus, all Judaism was Hellenistic Judaism. Martin Hengel's dictum, articulated in his massive book Judaism and Hellenism and elaborated upon in follow-up projects, has been enormously influential. His review of evidence from the Persian through the early rabbinic periods demonstrated that Hellenistic influence was felt in many spheres of Jewish life in Palestine: linguistic, literary, educational, architectural, religious, philosophical, artistic, political, economic, and military. Collectively a tour de force, his works exposed the problematic nature of sharp differentiations between Judaism in the Mediterranean Diaspora and Judaism in Palestine. Hengel argued that any use of the phrase “Hellenistic Judaism” that excludes Palestinian Judaism is inappropriate, and any effort to portray Palestinian Judaism as more “orthodox” than Diaspora Judaism on the basis of its supposedly lesser Hellenization is doomed to failure. Hengel has had his critics, but his main point is rightly accepted as conventional wisdom in most sectors of New Testament scholarship: Palestinian Judaism must be understood as a part of, not apart from, Hellenistic Judaism.

Judaism in Galilee was no exception. It, too, felt the impact of Greek culture, and no one can any longer imagine Jesus living, as it were, on an isolated and untouched island of Semitic culture in a sea of Hellenism. Like the rest of Palestine, it came under the influence of yet another empire's culture when it fell into the orbit of Rome, a point that Hengel and others also correctly made ....

Greco-Roman Culture and the Galilee of Jesus - Cambridge University Press

Incidentally, even the coins that Pilate minted have Greek inscriptions on them. They were minted in Jerusalem and were the official currency in the whole province:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontius_Pilate#/media/File:Coin-of-Pilate.jpg

I think it's self-explanatory. Why would Russia invade Ukraine if it had no reason to do so?

PS You can google the Finnish translation if you don't understand ... :wink:

I still tend to believe that Russia would have taken no action if its demands had been met from the start. When Putin said that Russia had no intention to invade, he was being truthful. That’s why he said it would depend on the situation on the ground, i.e., on his requests being met. Unfortunately, the West pretended not to get the message despite claiming that it had first-class intelligence on Russia’s every move.

So, basically, the West, i.e., US & UK, have been arming and training the Ukrainians for years against a Russian invasion, without doing absolutely anything to prevent the invasion. And that’s because they refused to give up their plans of unlimited eastward expansion. Ukraine has been a pawn on the West’s chessboard and is now paying the price for it!

I’m not sure destroying Ukraine’s economy to delay NATO or EU membership would be one of Putin’s objectives as the joining process would take years anyway. On the other hand, a destroyed Ukrainian economy and infrastructure will mean massive investments and virtual takeover by the West, probably in collaboration with local oligarchs and corrupt politicians, i.e., a repetition of the 1990’s, only worse than before, making Ukraine (or that part of it not under Russian control) totally dependent on the West.

Maybe Putin wants an even bigger share of food commodity markets? — Bitter Crank

Absolutely. That's why Putin created the World Bank, IMF, G7, WEF, WTO, NATO, EU, Twitter, Facebook, etc., etc. which, incidentally, all are headquartered in Russia and under Putin's total control.

All he now needs to fulfill his long-cherished dream of world-domination is to get his hands on a few Ukrainian cities transformed into rubble ...

Some crazy stuff... I don't know if related, but a similar ugly rumor has been going around in Africa for decades about AIDS, that is was invented by the Americans to kill black people. — Olivier5

That rumor was actually true. That's why the population of Africa has gone up from 500 million in the 1980's to currently 1,4 billion and growing! Was this genocide?

How does Putin's belief about the mooted biological weapons have any bearing whatsoever on their existence? — Isaac

It doesn't. But it's a good indicator of the intelligence levels of the anti-Russia brigade.

I think America’s plan to build a world empire through organizations like World Bank, IMF, G7, NATO, EU, is totally unjustifiable and needs to be stopped.

French Minister for European Affairs Clement Beaune has admitted that the European Union aims to incorporate Ukraine, Moldova, Georgia, and other countries in the region:

It is my deep conviction that there will be a European Union which will be in a few years, I don't know when, in a few years, probably extended to Ukraine, to Moldova, to Georgia, perhaps to other countries ...

Ukraine likely to join European Union, French EU affairs minister says – CNN

This exposes the imperialistic designs of NATO and the EU and eliminates all doubt that Germany, France, and other European countries need to rise up and free themselves from Anglo-American capitalist dominance once for all.

From what I can see, the South salient simply keeps advancing every day, and the North salient has now passed Kiev. — boethius

Are you quite sure about that? According to Western pro-NWO propaganda, "Superman Zelensky" is winning single-handedly with some assistance from Biden and Batman. It's getting increasingly difficult to decide who to believe .... :wink:

It is not so much a species of circular reasoning as it is a mobius strip. — Paine

On the contrary, the "mobius strip" is entirely yours. The scholarly position is that Greek was widely spoken in Roman Galilee, therefore Jesus himself most probably spoke Greek, especially with Pilate.

So, I think your opinion is irrelevant for all practical purposes .... :smile:

I think what @RogueAl is trying to say is that only fanatical Russia-haters should be allowed to take part in this discussion .... :smile:

Incidentally, Facebook and Instagram have announced they will allow posts calling for Putin’s death and for violence against Russian soldiers:

Sky videoSky video Ukraine war: Posts calling for violence against Putin and Russian soldiers 'to be temporarily allowed' on Facebook – SKY News

But according to some, Zelensky is a thug and his government is evil:

Video emerges of Madison Cawthorn calling Zelensky a ‘thug’ and Ukrainian government ‘woke’ and ‘evil’ – The Independent

Considering Zelensky's connections with criminal oligarchs, they may have a point. After all, if someone is being bombed by someone else, it doesn't follow that he isn't a thug. It just seems a shame that innocent Ukrainians have to suffer because of the corrupt leadership ....

This whole development about bio weapons labs, is truly and utterly bizarre. — boethius

Well, there is no smoke without fire. If Ukraine had biological weapons, it would have labs in which it developed them. If it has the labs, it still has the biological material. And if it has the material, some people must know about it. Though, obviously, not the general public ....

So, sure, this is an offensive attack, true, you're right in that. — Christoffer

Right. So, that torpedoes your spurious claim that NATO is "defensive". By your own admission, NATO is defending its own interests by attacking countries that have never had any intention to attack NATO! :grin:

BTW, why are NATO's enemies of choice Slavic people like Serbs and Russians. Why can't it bomb Finland or Turkey instead?

Let's put on the tin foil hats then. I mean, this forum is the last place for facts, rational arguments, or logic. — Christoffer

Yeah, that's why you're on this forum, isn't it? As for tin foil hats, I think you're wearing one already .... :grin:

IMO it is absolutely crucial to understand the status of Greek in the Roman Empire. The Italic Peninsula itself had been colonized by Greeks for many centuries. Greek culture was regarded as more advanced than the local Italic culture. Even the Italic scripts (Latin, Etruscan) had been adopted from the Greeks. Greek was widely used even in Rome, especially by the educated upper classes. Emperor Claudius referred to Latin and Greek as the mother tongues of the Empire (lit. “our tongues”).

Jesus is said to have grown up in Galilee. The population of Galilee was a mixture of Aramaic, Iturean, Phoenician, and Greek elements, and Greek was widely spoken. It doesn’t say anywhere that 1st-century Galilean carpenters weren’t allowed to speak Greek.

There is continual scholarly discussion and debate today regarding the languages spoken and used in the multilingual speech community of first-century Palestine. The scholarly proposals are many, but there is an increasing awareness among biblical scholars that Greek would have been the primary and prestige language and the lingua franca of that ancient speech community.

The Language and Literature of the New Testament – Academia Edu

Based on numbers alone, Greek had as much currency in first- as it did in second- and third-century Galilee … On the basis of all of the extant evidence, knowledge of Greek was probably quite common, with most people picking it up by force of circumstance rather than through formal instruction.

The Use of Greek in Early Roman Galilee - Journal for the Study of the New Testament (JSNT)

Moreover, we also need to take into account that Jesus was not the only one present in Pilate’s judgment hall. There were also the chief priests and the elders, i.e., Jesus’ accusers, who wouldn’t have spoken Latin. And as @baker has correctly pointed out, Pilate is unlikely to have used Aramaic in a Roman court of law.

All facts considered, the most likely language for Jesus to have used in his conversation with Pilate is Greek.

If you are going to appeal to the divinity of Jesus to say that he would not be bound by any historical condition he found himself in, then it is meaningless to argue for any historical condition being more likely than another. — Paine

Nonsense. Whether divine or not, Jesus would have used the language that had the widest currency at that point in time and space. There is nothing wrong with trying to establish what that language was. Indeed, the growing scholarly consensus is that it was Greek, more precisely, Galilean Greek, i.e., a local dialect of Koine Greek.

The question is about bio weapons, a weapon of mass destruction and if Ukraine has them. — boethius

Interestingly, the WHO has advised Ukraine to destroy high-threat pathogens housed in the country's labs to prevent "any potential spills" that would spread disease among the population:

Exclusive-WHO says it advised Ukraine to destroy pathogens in health labs to prevent disease spread - Reuters

So, maybe they know something that the public aren't being told about ....

This offer seems more fair to Ukrainians than losing half the country. — boethius

True. But there is no sign of US-UK agreeing to this, and that's because they want NATO and the EU to keep expanding all the way to Siberia after which China will be next on America's NWO agenda ....

I wouldn't agree that's the best solution, considering seems it was possible to not have a war at all. — boethius

"Best solution" considering the current situation on the ground. I'm pretty confident the Russians can take the eastern half and make the Dnieper their border. Ukraine would still have Odessa for access to the Black Sea, after which all it needs to do is to stay out of NATO.

Unfortunately, the US and UK don't want that, because their true objective is to expand NATO, i.e., "their" territory into Ukraine and beyond. Clearly, this is unacceptable to Russia. IMO NATO should stop expanding and America should get out of Europe.

It's really unclear to me how Zelensky could have sat down and rationally worked out such a plan. In addition, his US supporters were pretty open about the goal to arm an insurgency ... which takes as given losing the conventional battle. — boethius

That's the big question. Zelensky is a professional TV actor (comedian, to be more precise) with no experience of politics or statesmanship whatsoever. He entered politics in 2018, ran for president in 2019 in a virtual election campaign using social media channels and YouTube clips, and with the backing of the same oligarchs who financed him and his party, and "won" the election.

Even now, there is no evidence that he understands international relations. He obviously lives in a media bubble and acts as advised by his oligarch bosses and foreign powers (US & UK). If Zelensky isn't a puppet, I don't know who is ....

Yes. IMO the best solution would be for Ukraine to be divided fairly between the two sister nations.

Russia should take everything east of the Dnieper, and maybe half of Kiev, and Zelensky (or Kolomoisky) can keep the rest.

As stated many times, Nato is not an offensive alliance, they do not attack unless being attacked. — Christoffer

As stated many times, that claim has long been debunked and exposed as a lie. NATO does attack anytime it serves US interests to attack, as in Serbia where it bombed a country that had no issue with NATO, America, or its British Poodle:

NATO bombing of Yugoslavia - Wikipedia

The Clinton administration and NATO officials were accused of inflating the number of Kosovar Albanians killed by Serbs. The media watchdog group Accuracy in Media charged the alliance with distorting the situation in Kosovo and lying about the number of civilian deaths in order to justify US involvement in the conflict

So, America manufactures a false narrative and then acts on that narrative to attack any country it pleases.

See also the case of Iraq, etc.

And, of course, under the NATO Treaty, the only event that justifies a NATO military response is if a country attacks or prepares to attack a NATO member. At no point did Serbia attack or threaten NATO members.

It follows that NATO is NOT a purely "defensive" alliance .... :lol:

Zelensky has dug himself into a hole (or grave). My guess is that he was prompted by his oligarch masters (Kolomoisky & Co) to stand up to Russia in the hope that the US and UK, who have been arming and training his people, and maybe Israel, would come to his rescue. Obviously, he has miscalculated badly. Now he is likely to lose half of his country to Russia and he will have the death of thousands of Ukrainian civilians on his conscience.

Anyway, here’s more info on Zelensky's boss Kolomoisky who is so dodgy that even America had to kick him out:

Bogolyubov and Kolomoisky fostered strong reputations as corporate raiders in the mid-2000s, becoming notorious for a series of hostile takeovers. Hostile takeovers Ukrainian style, that is, which often included the active involvement of Privat’s quasi-military teams. These schemes included, among others, a literal raid on the Kremenchuk steel plant in 2006, in which hundreds of hired rowdies armed with baseball bats, iron bars, gas and rubber bullet pistols and chainsaws forcibly took over the plant.
Privat Group has been involved in several court cases and arbitration proceedings in the US, UK, and Sweden. In 2009, a US court made clear its distrust of Privat representatives: “the Court has become increasingly skeptical of these gentleman [at Privat] and the credibility of their statements.”

An Injection Of Rule Of Law For Ukrainian Business? Oligarch's Lawsuit Could Help Improve The Culture Of Business Dealings In The Post Soviet Space – Forbes

According to The Times, Kolomoisky’s private militia is one of Ukraine’s most powerful military groups:

In the aftermath of the 2014 Ukrainian revolution, Mr. Kolomoisky played a positive role for Ukraine in financing one of the largest and most effective paramilitary units fighting the Russian military intervention, at a time when the regular army was in shambles. Mr. Kolomoisky’s militia, Dnipro, held a section of the battle front west of the city of Donetsk.

U.S. Sanctions Key Ukrainian Oligarch - New York Times

According to the Pandora Papers:

Zelensky and his television production partners were beneficiaries of a web of offshore firms that allegedly received $41 million in funds from Kolomoisky’s Privatbank

And The Times:

Mr. Kolomoisky’s television station supported Mr. Zelensky in the 2019 presidential election … Mr. Zelensky’s spokeswoman published an article saying he plans to diminish the role of the oligarchs in Ukraine’s politics. But that is no simple matter. Mr. Kolomoisky controls a faction in Mr. Zelensky’s political party, the Servant of the People, without which the party would not have a majority in Parliament ….

U.S. Sanctions Key Ukrainian Oligarch, Ihor Kolomoisky - The New York Times

Shouldn't the West start imposing sanctions on all Ukrainian oligarchs? Or are mobsters OK as long as they're on NATO's side? :smile:

Does anyone here trust the US Governments official pronouncements or are these to be met with skepticism? — FreeEmotion

Met with skepticism? With a former lawyer like Biden and tech oligarchs in charge, the best bet is to completely ignore them. Except, perhaps, to have a laugh .... :smile:

If you do that in Russia you get sent to prison. It's not even comparable. — Christoffer

And if you do it in the West you get attacked by the media and by the brainwashed mobs in the streets.

Anyway, that is not the point. The point is that your statement "the Russians establish a narrative and then they act" (a) does not prove anything and (b) it isn’t an argument given that everyone is doing it not just the Russians.

Even the Western media, the New York Times, the Guardian, the BBC, etc. has pointed out that Western platforms like Twitter and Facebook are full of fake news:

Ukraine conflict: Further false images shared online – BBC

So, basically, it is nonsense to claim otherwise.

Are you still blaming Ukraine for this invasion? Like... you are unable to understand page after page of counter arguments to this? — Christoffer

You mean page after page of spam from the Finnish outback? :grin:

Why don't you read people's posts before "commenting" on them??? I never said Ukraine is to be blamed for the invasion. Ukraine is to be blamed for not meeting Russia's demands to stay out of NATO and for putting its own population in danger. But the real culprits are NATO and the EU, i.e., America and its European puppets!

Förstår du det inte?

The propaganda machine is their biggest tool. They establish a narrative and then they act, in order to confuse people or validate for their own people why they're doing what they're doing. — Christoffer

That's exactly what the US (and their British Poodle) are doing, too. They establish a narrative and then they act:

Propaganda in the United States - Wikipedia

This is common knowledge, unless you live on a different planet (called Finland). So, perhaps you ought to acquaint yourself with some basic facts before lecturing others about facts. :grin:

It makes "emotional sense" now, but will make zero rational sense as soon as the War is over and the extreme damages to Ukraine and people's lives contended with. — boethius

Some people keep saying that Putin “miscalculated”. But I think it is fair to say that Zelensky miscalculated even more. All he had to do was to promise not to join NATO and recognize Crimea and the Donbas as Russian. That would have saved half of his country from being reduced to rubble.

In any case, the Russians learned their tactics from America and Britain and are following the example of Hiroshima, Nagasaki, and Dresden .....

:up:

It seems theoretically possible that Pilate spoke Latin and Jesus spoke Aramaic and that both understood eachother's language, but insisted on speaking each their own. — baker

Theoretically, anything is possible. However, Greek was universally spoken in the eastern parts of the Roman Empire because the region had been under Greek rule for several centuries and Greek rulers promoted Greek culture and language. Educated Romans, especially the nobility, spoke Greek which was the language of culture, philosophy, and science.

In Roman Palestine, Greek was the common conversational medium between the locals and the Roman authorities, as evident from the NT text itself:

As the soldiers were about to take Paul into the barracks, he asked the commander, “May I say something to you?” “Do you speak Greek?” he replied (Acts 21:37).

Obviously, Paul addressed the Roman commander in Greek, even though as a Roman citizen, he might have been expected to know Latin. But Greek was the common language, Latin being limited to the Roman-born military and administrative authorities.

For the same reason, as the NT clearly says, Pilate had an inscription written in Greek, Latin, and Aramaic, attached to Jesus' cross (John 19:20).

PS To understand the cultural and linguistic situation of Roman Palestine, it is useful to refer to scholars like Martin Hengel (Judaism and Hellenism) or G. Scott Gleaves (Did Jesus Speak Greek?).

Of course, the shape similarity between a graphic symbol of the invasion of Ukraine, and a symbol of the invasion of Poland is an inference in the mind of the beholder. I can't read the minds of the painters, so I'm just guessing. — Gnomon

That’s exactly what I’m saying. “Guessing”, i.e., making things up. :grin:

Obviously, you are free to imagine anything you want. I for one see no “resemblance” whatsoever between a “Z” and a German swastika. And, of course, there is no evidence that the Russian servicemen thought of one when they painted, “V’s”, "A's", "X's", "O's", and many other symbols on their vehicles.

Incidentally, the swastika was used by many countries, including Poland in the 1920's and before:

Federacja Polskich Związków Obrońców Ojczyzny - Wikipedia

Coat of arms of the Boreyko family, Poland, 14th/15th century - Wikipedia

The way I see it, much of biblical scholarship seems to be stuck in the 1940’s when Israel was controlled by Marxists and there was an effort to dismiss early Christianity as a minor Jewish sect with links to the Qumran scrolls.

However, 1st century Galilee was heavily Hellenized and some of Jesus’ own disciples had Greek names, e.g., Andrew, Philip, Simon, which suggests a Hellenized cultural background.

Moreover, if, as per the NT text, Jesus was the Son of God, then (a) he would have spoken fluent Greek and (b) it would have made sense for him to use the universal language of the time in order to spread a universal message – which, incidentally, is precisely why Greek was chosen as the language of the Gospels.

The alternative view would have to be based on the assumptions that (a) Jesus was not the Son of God but an uneducated man, and (b) that his intention was not to establish a universal religion but a small Jewish sect, all of which IMHO seems to undermine the very foundations of Christianity.

So, I think it all depends on the kind of "Christian" you choose to be .... :wink:

To look up on Google if he spoke Greek is idiotic. — Joe Mello

That may be so, if only because Jesus' speaking Greek in addition to Aramaic is a logical conclusion. However, you haven't told us what language you think Jesus used when he spoke to Pilate.