And according to Christians, the peace logo also represents an upturned cross with broken arms. So Satanic. Christians find peace on earth satanistic — Vincent

I'm well into Christianity and do not agree with you.

do you know the true meaning of upturned cross?
Peter, first pope was crucified in Rome upside down.

I don't see how peace logo could be satanic.
Pope is preaching peace all the time, he even stands with Ukraine to promote peace, I don't see how Christians are anti-peace, excluding fanatics who push for rattle of weapons.

thank you for the link, it's a long read.

Ingo Piepers (Dutch mathematician) uses mathematical formulas to predict that WW3 will start in 2022 at the latest. The many religions have predicted that too. The religions have also predicted that someone will intervene during WW3 and bring about world peace. The so-called Antichrist. The replacement and successor of Jesus.
If you follow the news a little, WW3 could start any moment. That means that probably the new messiah will also come. And I think this man will lead us to the point where we don't need a leader anymore. — Vincent

wow! you're amazing. WW3 2022 and new Jesus but Antichrist!
problem however is, to find a fool willing to be crucified :grin:

do you have a source of this math guy?

EDIT:
by the way you should change your avatar to this one:
First letter is A:
- Anarchy
- Antichrist

awesome video, I'm enjoying it! :up:

Yes, groups will then appear with propaganda. Christianity is the greatest example of this — Vincent

Hey, you're very wrong on this.
Jesus in the eyes of Romans and Jews was the biggest anarchist of all times.
Jesus preached freedom that we enjoy still today :smile:

Imagine there was no Jesus and religions still dealing with old fashioned pre-Jesus stuff?

Anarchy is what man was made for, not order. — Vincent

Anarchy is impossible to achieve because there will always be groups of people formed willing to project their power to get stuff that belongs to others.

We can imagine a perfect world, say it's possible, but there is no way small groups wouldn't pop out with propaganda and promises of better life.
People want better life.

good question.

I think world peace require that each person out of 7 billion inhabitants of the planet stops being greedy and start sharing it's wealth with others.

There are 2 major issues with that:
1. those who are rich and middle class are unwilling to do it with the poor.
2. some people might exploit the situation to stop working because of free riches.

It's easy to imagine the world of peace and equality but extremely unlikely.
Imagine you ask for cigarette on the street and everyone is willing to give it to you?
Imagine you ask for help to finish your house and suddenly there are 15 people around willing to help?

easy to imagine but impossible, all because of greed.

There is a rapper song (not revealing which one):
"Look for yourself only and fuck others", it's how this world works.

Who knows... — Hillary

that's right, "who knows".
therefore not an explanation of how universe come to be :smile:

The big bang. — Hillary

huh, big bang is one of the theories in sequence, it doesn't answer why there is universe.
Theory is not evidence and if there is no evidence then there is no explanation why.

Science is absolutely true. It gives us an explanation why the universe is there. — Hillary

what is an explanation of why universe is there?

love is about a world where everybody loves each other.
Such world is impossible, it's impossible to achieve such love, not even for 1 minute.
Is it possible that entire world loves each other just for 1 minute? No, it's impossible.

If such thing would happen we would see God.

There is a book called "life after death" (I don't recall who wrote it), it talks about survivors of clinical death, and their experiences.
most of them shared similar experiences, things such as "out of body" and "light and the end of tunnel" phenomena.

I think Ukraine can outlast Russia in a war of attrition. They have high morale, the moral high ground, and Europe and America in their corner. — RogueAI

War of attrition means running out of resources required to continue war.
I don't believe EU and US will supply Ukraine for ever, Ukrainians are constantly barking how they need more weapons and more financial aid, while they do so Russia is advancing little by little.

If Russia captures maritime part of Ukraine, Ukraine is free to capitulate because what will be left is not worth fighting for.
Luhansks and Donetsk are the most industrious regions, and maritime part of the country is required for export, therefore Since Ukraine is loosing these regions, there is little left that is worth financing from EU or US, instead EU\US is likely to force Ukraine into peace if Russians capture southern part of country.

What about so-called hallucinations/mirages? — Agent Smith

We know upfront mirages are fake because it can be proven.
hallucinations, I don't know.

but things such as clinical death are real.

Can you give an example of censorship? — Jackson

There is no need for an example, censorship is well known method with a well known outcome.

But what is Putin's choice? — RogueAI

Putin is counting war of attrition, economic collapse of Ukraine because Ukraine won't be able to finance it's war indefinitely.

threat to free speech is not so much extremism as it is censorship and propaganda.
It's difficult to define the scope of extremism when censorship and propaganda play major role.

What are our options?

(i) X is detectable then X exists (Rejected because of hallucinations)

(ii) X exists then X is detectable (Ok, can be used to demonstrate nonexistence via nondetectability) — Agent Smith

Detectable implies material, but God is not material.
Therefore "detectable" should be defined so that it includes nonmaterial detection, ie. psychological phenomena, fulfillment of prayer and similar.

I agree that nothing comes out of nothing, but eternal universe is equally odd don't you think?

Ah, OK sorry, I hope I didn't disrupt you conversation.

agree, everything that exists must have a cause and nothing can be the cause of itself.
therefore nature (universe) did not cause itself.

I think you 2 instead of attacking each other it may be better to put forward arguments for and against God's existence, and then collect as much constructive information as possible to defend your argument.

Gods don't exist in this universe. — Haglund

universe is according to old beliefs abode of evil spirits, and likely that holds even today when universe is mostly studied by scientists.

I think scientific discoveries are on the peak, the universe is dead place that keeps expanding, meaning we'll never be able to reach any planet, we're stuck on planet earth likely until the Sun dies out.

new scientific discoveries are limited to areas that are within reach such as AI, robotics and similar, but physics, space, microscopic world and similar is at dead end.
scientists will struggle very hard to provide any proof that undermine religious beliefs.

Here is one interesting video about God debate, I find it interesting because it's so hard for scientists to do anything about God:

I suppose there must be an explanation on how to interpret these codes.
I only know that one code may refer to multiple diagnosis types.

they utterly defeated the viewpoints I held all the way up to my mid-twenties and they will continue to gain equality globally. — universeness

They are getting their equality but it seems only in the western world.

Disease classification is world wide accepted:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classification_of_mental_disorders

in psychiatry, diseases are classified according to diagnostic codes.
for homosexuality it is Z72.52, for transsexuality it is 302.50

Yes it is, it's classified as mental disorder, diagnostic code Z72.52 aka. "High risk homosexual behavior":

https://icd.codes/icd10cm/Z7252

If a male thinks he is a woman, the best he can do is to visit psychiatrist to at least learn why does he feel that way.

in psychiatry there is well known diagnosis for this illness, it's easy to google it out therefore mentioning doctor is not mocking.

However true problem is that them feeling it that way is more pleasant than asking doctor for help.

If I feel there is something wrong with my stomach or my head I'll go visit a doctor, and so should a person who thinks that he should change his genitalia.

EDIT:
diagnostic code is 302.50
that's clasified as mental disorder

Methinks trans people are confused. There's a difference between I want to be a man/woman and I am a man/woman. For instance, there are young teenage boys who want to be Justin Bieber or some other singing sensation, but they, for certain, don't believe that they are Justin Bieber.

By transsexual logic if someone wants to be Mickey Mouse, s/he is Mickey Mouse. — Agent Smith

A man my thing he is a woman or vice versa, but there is no way for them to prove it :smile:

Definitionally yes, usage... who knows? — Tom Storm

colloquially the word "sacred" is often borrowed, ex:
My country is sacred (but nobody is worshiping my land)
President's office is sacred (but nobody is worshiping his office)
holly war (but nobody is worshiping a war)

One question I would like to ask is of atheism is the sense in which atheism is the denial of the category of 'the sacred' or 'the holy'. — Wayfarer

What do you understand by 'the sacred' can it be a secular notion? — Tom Storm

Absolutely not:

"The sacred" is connected with God or a god or dedicated to a religious purpose and so deserving veneration.

The sacred is religious rather than secular.

No, my point is that definition of time is about existence rather than just a measurement unit.

Please define time — val p miranda

Time is the continued sequence of existence and events that occurs in an apparently irreversible succession from the past, through the present, into the future.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time

also:

the indefinite continued progress of existence and events in the past, present, and future regarded as a whole.

eternal life is to be understood as existing in another reality, not in this universe.

time in that another reality is to be understood as not correlated with time in this reality, it is impossible to imagine the speed of time in another reality because it's eternal, any limitation to time would question eternity.

Upon my death, I would not merely encounter in heaven only those persons who died before me, but I would also encounter in heaven all those persons who I thought I was leaving behind, and I would also encounter in heaven all those persons who would be my future descendants. — charles ferraro

Yes, because afterlife in another reality means transition of soul from this reality to another reality and the process as well as death is unavoidable.

good point, it's common misconception that "bad people go to hell"

you were dragged into a sect, I'm glad you escaped, these are crazy people indeed.
it kind of explains why so much disgust toward religious.

I even had a person who earned his living as a theist of Protestantism say to me that he knew a secret truth that was not known by many but was accepted by the highest authorities in both the protestant and catholic faiths.
It was a few years later when he was a little pissed one night at a gathering and he said that the god of the old testament was overthrown by the god of the new testament. I think that was the big secret he was talking about. Perhaps he was just 'winding me up,' I have no idea but I did think he was a bizarre theist after that. That was about 25 years ago and I have never seen him since.
Some strange fruits grow on those theistic burning bushes. — universeness

nice "secret", I have secret that is 100 times more powerful :smile:
his secret was accepted because Christianity was born, obviously Jews didn't become Christianized, there was massacre in Jerusalem starting with Joseph first martyr because of Jesus and his teachings.
So yes, one God overthrown another, but that applies more to Jews than to Christians.

This quote is perfect example for "out of context" method, because he puts forward presumably only negative connotations without asking or saying anything why is that so?


are you atheist since ever or have you been believer once but no more?

such as, "join us, or suffer in hell for eternity." — universeness

lol, fanatics do exist, but this is not conversion.

'out of context, sound bite technique,' he commonly employs — universeness

atheists enjoy "out of context" methods because it's the easiest way to undermine theist dogma, mostly because a lot of theist are not apologists, atheists use it as well known tool for attack.

I say you offer imbalance, as you do not cite the many examples of theist attempts to convert people to their cause. — universeness

theists unlike atheists have a duty to convert, therefore it's normal for theists to attempt to convert although many don't practice that. but it's not normal for atheists since atheism is about disbelief in God, not about spreading religion.
That's why I find these "new atheists" practicing "atheist religion" strange, they are forming some sort of a church.

I don't think much of Rod Liddle. He is a Church of England theist who holds some very suspect viewpoints. I don't think he could produce a balanced piece on atheism if his life depended upon it. — universeness

I warmly recommend to watch the video anyway, it's one of the best because is speaks about "new atheism" point of view.