To me, it seems amazing how brains manage in past, present and future. Present awareness being the most critical as it has physical consequences.

My take on this time perception problem is to think of mental content in universal form.

Brain; (what the brain supports)

Brain; (time perception)
Brain; (past)
Brain; (present)
Brain; (future)

Looking at it this way we need to take a dualist view about the present.

The present is in two categories. The physical present that exists as physical matter and mental content that exists as a non-physical.

World wide car fatalities are 1.35 million per year.
West Virginia has an especially high fatality rate in the US. Mountain roads maybe.

Maybe some mental philosophy about the risks of driving can keep us out of some of the mayhem accidents that happen in ice, snow, fog. Too many people get locked into schedules that can kill.

The alternatives have their risks too.

To me you just said that all the evidence in the form of our experience (I presume in our minds) points to mind-independent existents. That seems like a contradiction.

I think the biking and walking conversation will drive some here crazy. They probably want more of the grand projects that governments do.

The thing is we need some exercise anyway so why not walk 10 or 20 minutes a day? Like you say a nice walk to get a bag of groceries.

Also your area looks like a sweet spot for transportation options compared to me being a ways out of town.

Studded tires...okay.

There is always walking too. A normal walking pace for me is 4 miles per hour. It's good to know your rate if you are in a pinch. So you can walk a mile in 15 minutes if you really need to.

If you lived in Minneapolis in August 2007 you remember the I-35W Mississippi river bridge collapse. I guess we are known for that. Bad bridge bearings that were frozen (locked up) and heavy materials stored on the bridge deck plus hot weather.

13 people died and more injured. The evil of cars.

I know what you mean about picking your bike routes carefully. The Midtown Greenway you mentioned is one of those places. It's great in the daytime. It's a little sketchy at night.

You know about it but it's an old rail line converted to bike trail that runs below street level so has an overhead bridge at every street crossing.
It runs for a few miles that way in a straight line.
It's an interesting feature of Minneapolis you might not see unless you bike.

I saw an old vacuum cleaner thrown off one of the bridges onto the bike trail. Things like that.
So things happen.

Biking is dangerous. Street riding is the worst.
Things like getting 'doored' by a parked cars, storm drains, uneven curbs and gutters, potholes, cracks can ruin your day. I would think biking on known routes in your own neighborhood would be the safest. I did bike a few times in freezing weather and wouldn't recommend it. Ice patches and it's very hard to regulate your body temperature so if you stop biking you will be wet and freeze. And some trails might get groomed for skiing not biking in the winter.

I got started biking because a Sam's Club I shopped at was on a bike trail. I could do my shopping and spend an evening on the bike trails.

There are people who look for apartments on these trails just to get around on bikes but I doubt it works year round in Minnesota. Busing and biking would work if you are young.

I have some family in the Boston area but only get there every ten years or so. I like Boston.

I used to bike a lot in Minneapolis. There are about 500 miles of off road trails in the metro area so one of the best biking cities in the US.
The Grand Rounds was set up by the parks board way back as the area was developed but the trail system has been built out in the last few decades.

I live a ways outside Minneapolis so I know the area.
The Northstar line is the heavy rail line for commuters and somewhat under used but could be coming back. From Minneapolis there is a light rail line to St Paul and one to the main airport. Another line is under construction, way over budget, and behind schedule.

That covers most of Minneapolis transit for those who don't know. Good bus service in most areas.

Yes light rail...my closest big city is Minneapolis Minnesota. Some short underground sections by the airport.

The thing with rail is physical limits. Things like curves and grades that don't work everywhere.

I don't know. Okay...cost/benefit for cars (as is) vs cost/benefit for some other solution (might be). That's a little beyond me.

I would support smarter solutions and think reducing transportation needs would be a quick payback. Live closer to where you work. Have basic needs close by. Reverse urban sprawl. Do the easier things first. Even the simple things have push back and inertia.

After that it gets messy. It's not just basic needs but all the extra things people want to do.

I'm thinking there are personal solutions, government solutions, technology solutions.

For me it's just a personal solution. So for me it's a mix of things. Sometimes I just handle things by phone, networking, friends.
Online shopping has surpassed stores for me.

No, just generalizing. More in the area of dial a ride and limited service.

There are smaller scale transit companies in small markets that seem very well run. Government subsidized but they are not the same as what you might expect in the big cities. Like county wide services in the outskirts.

I'm someone who likes the park and ride. For someone a little outside of a metro area it seems to make sense. If you can travel light and don't have a tight time schedule it saves money, parking fees, possible risks like accidents, tickets, towing, damage, traffic.......

Not for everyone, but for me it's an option sometimes. I don't have a car now so I haven't done it for awhile.

If I visit a new city I like to check out their transit.
El Paso Texas had a good bus system when I was there. It got me close enough to walk into Mexico. Maybe a bad idea but it was just 50 cents to cross the bridge and I liked the food stands and walked back out before dark.

Boston has good transit and connects with Logan airport. I got out to the MIT, Harvard areas. Vacation sight seeing I guess but some of us like that.

Actually there is a lot of variation city to city. I try to check ahead but always a lot to learn.

I'm just rambling on about anything I know about transit. I haven't had a car for 2 years so have to find mixes of things that work for my situation.

In the winter you'll probably get cold feet waiting for the bus or light rail.

In the summer don't ride light transit after the ball game because it will reek of beer from the sports fans gassing off.

Spring or fall might be better, but you should ask some locals first. For example, O'Hare airport to downtown Chicago..take a taxi, not the L. Just my perspective. I found out the hard way. And you can't manage more than a small pack or hand bag.

I'm probably not deterred, but some will be. Many, many good rides but a few bad ones mixed in. Like Capitol Heights to the National Mall (DC) by rail..if anyone knows that one.

I actually use park and ride in big cities to keep my car from being vandalized.

I'm going to try hunter-gather for awhile. I don't have a car so I'm closer than most. I actually think I could do it but not sure it's a good idea.

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Yes, yes, you're young. I've been there, done that. Seems like I go through phases...maybe I'll get back to it.

I've done some road trips. For me they were just the opposite of a vacation. High stress, high worry, high risk. The destination has to be worth it for me and that seems to be less worth it than it used to be.

I do transit and flying but don't like flying either.

Has anyone heard the saying 'easy for children, difficult for adults'? Maybe I'm misapplying it.

The best situation I've come across is a college campus type situation where most things are in walking distance and need for transportation is low. But that's a very narrow age group and most jobs are going to require travel, probably by car. And if you like more variety or travel or need a hospital or your friends move away or like to move a lot you're locked into the car. The old European cities sound good too.

JD Powers is saying the quality of cars is going down. Mostly early failure of new technologies.

Before I was driving age my friend's mom would drive a bunch of us around in an old paneled station wagon we called the war wagon. Loved that car... don't remember the make and model but it was big and a nice ride. My friend got it when he got his license and it lasted a long time.
Probably off topic.

I think I was trying to make you feel guilty for having two cars. Not really, just people decide on their own circumstances.

I'm carless at the moment but do grocery shopping on a local bus service. One of the hardest things is hauling bags on a bus. I need about 4 pounds of food a day so a two week supply is about 60 pounds which I pack in my own heavy duty bags to get home. It's doable for me but really clumsy at times. Some buses restrict the amount so you may have a one or two bag limit. Going more often takes too much time.
It's a little hard but in my situation I'd rather do it than have big car expenses. And I enjoy riding and hate driving myself.

Nothing like that anywhere near me.
I'm in a situation were thinking and planning and stocking supplies makes a big difference. Mostly I have my own resources and some limited public transit. And I don't commute. Working near home is huge in the whole picture. I do find ways to travel but don't like long trips over a few hours any more.

I like this topic. I've gone back and forth with car, no car a number of times. I prefer no car by far. It's easy for a student in some cases. I remember at college orientation someone mentioned to consider not having a car for various reasons if it would work for our situation and from that I think I got in the habit of thinking about it.

You're right about autos being a waste of money.
For me it's a headache to avoid if at all possible but for most people there isn't a choice. I used to bike a couple thousand miles a year. Short trips...nothing to wear the joints out but saved a lot of car expense. Probably a little old for that now but I keep a bicycle around.

The OP mentioned Artificial Intelligence so I took a look at the free ChatGPT for the first time. I'm familiar with chatbots and some of the other things we run into but it's really not a big interest of mine. It seems to be better every time I check.

I asked ChatGPT if it had time perception and it answered NO and that it was a human trait. I thought that was interesting. I asked some geometry questions like 3D objects and it does great on those and sometimes returned more than I would have known so a useful tool. It's a big deal, no doubt. It did seem very mechanical and constrained. Not quite a human response on all questions and on some questions it seemed like it was just retrieving a page of text.

To me it seems like AI is still mechanics. I suspect brains do it differently. My guess is brains are advanced enough that they really do manipulate non-physicals. The computers are just running lines of code.

Not entirely sure about this, I could be wrong.
I still think there is more potential in developing theory of mind than not.

A good argument for mind is all the variations in our minds. Like all the books in the libraries. Different brains, different minds. Not the case that all brains are alike.

I would say the minds physical form is the physical brain itself. To me that is a starting point. After that there is a lot to sort through.

Here is an abbreviated list in case you missed the first one:

Physical brain; (thought)
Physical brain; (ideas)
Physical brain; (knowledge)
Physical brain; (information)
Physical brain; (consciousness)
Physical brain; (memory)
Physical brain; (planning)
Physical brain; (time perseption)
Physical brain; (non-physicals)
Physical brain; (communication abilities)
*
*
*
AND mind
Physical brain; (mind)

The pattern seems to be that we have a lot of words for what the brain does. Maybe a trap is that we argue for the meaning of a word and miss the big picture.

Putting mind into the universal form I mentioned yesterday seems to work as a theory of mind. That looks like this:

Physical brain; (mind)

A fairly simple concept.
Again using the same relation it means that mind is supported by physical brain state.

All the things that fit this form are one thing...what the brain supports...but the word mind is a more all encompassing word.

Now instead of mind being off limits we have an understanding of its physical basis and since we have direct access to mind and not to biology we can make some progress.

I don't think dualism is an issue as long as the relation is understood. But subject matter appears to drive the physical world both by our experience and observation.

You can say everything is brain biology, brain state and brain process.

My perspective is you can develope theory of mind a little more. A lot of what we discuss here can fit a universal form like this:

Physical brain; (abstractions)
Physical brain; (concepts)
Physical brain; (sensing physical environment)
Physical brain; (muscle control)
Physical brain; (thinking)
Physical brain; (ideas)
Physical brain; (knowledge)
Physical brain; (information)
Physical brain; (consciousness)
Physical brain; (language)
Physical brain; (mathematics)
Physical brain; (science)
Physical brain; (philosophy)
Physical brain; (non-physicals)
Physical brain; (time perseption)
Physical brain; (visualizing)
Physical brain; (manipulating physical matter)
Physical brain; (manipulating non-physicals)
Physical brain; (how to communicate)
Physical brain; (how to encode and decode physical matter)

On and on

The notation semicolon parentheses means such that the subject in the parentheses is supported by physical brain state.

Given in this form I think it's easier to understand the debate of monism or dualism.

Also things like the word information in language isn't something that can exist outside this brain supported form.

I referenced a University of Minnesota psychiatric intervention program in another thread. I'll give the reference again here.

YouTube...search UMN psychiatric intervention.

From what I know it's typical of the programs in that school. Heavily financed by pharma. It's an example of neurology that leans heavily toward physicalism and because of financing, alternatives are discouraged.

A lot of their studies get discredited. Twins study for example.

Oops....try YouTube. Search for UMN Interventional Psychiatry.

I'm still agreeing with most of what you are saying. Everything is physically based.

My issue is abstractions have specific parameters and recurrent neural networks must conform to the subject matter. And once the abstraction is in place (physically instantiated) the abstraction can drive mental process.

I actually agree with you in how brains do time perseption but there is more to it. In dealing with the past or future, brains are picking up on something non-physical, retaining it, and using it as input for further mental processing. It's like the brain deals in these non-physical things.

As you say, recurrent neural networks, but there seems to be an ability to 'go off the page' of what is possible with physical matter and do things in a non-physical environment. Seems like math for example is an exercise in manipulating non-physicals

Can a brain existing in the physical present have time perseption of past or future? And what wound that mechanism be? Maybe some theory of mind is in order to explain how brains deal with non-physicals. The alternative is to explain it physically using present physical matter but I don't think it can be done.

The subject of neuroscience has come up here a few times in the last week or so and it seems relevant to physicalism so I was looking at the current University of Minnesota neuroscience programs.
At the research level there currently is a lot of cross disciplinary collaboration going on. Something new that I noticed was something called interventional psychiatry. I don't really know how to link it but if you search YouTube for UMN Interventional Psychiatry you should get a short video on that.

Minnesota has some big medical device makers in the state so this might be something we hear about more than most.

Deleted. How do I erase this?