“Never, ever in a million years did we see Joe Biden as a destination,” said Nicolas O’Rourke, the Pennsylvania organizing director of Working Families Party Pennsylvania, a labor-aligned third party. “He’s a doorway to the kind of terrain and world that we could actually organize in.
...
About a half-dozen progressive politicians addressed protesters last week. State Rep. Chris Rabb (D., Philadelphia) called Biden “harm reduction” and said work on more liberal policies would only intensify upon his election.”

:up:

https://www.inquirer.com/news/biden-trump-victory-election-2020-progressives-green-new-deal-leftist-aoc-philadelphia-20201112.html

...so long as the upshot isn’t counter to the pragmatic choices that have to be made to keep the worse of them out of power. — Pfhorrest

:up:

Sounds like you haven't being paying attention to anything specific that's happened during this cycle and are just intent on repeating the same shit we already know as if we're all stupid because we're not listening to you. Nice strawman.

Here's a dose of reality on the specifics of what happened this time around. Biden got 78 million votes. That's 10 million more than Obama. The left (what there is of it in America and there isn't much) came out en masse and voted against Trump. So there wasn't a turnout issue. But even then, Biden only won because suburban moderates couldn't stand orangeman enough that they got pushed Dem. Suburban moderates don't vote for "socialists". Conclusion, Bernie would have lost (and I say this as someone who previously thought he could win). And any, even mildly, leftwing candidate would have lost. And then what? Vaseline, lube, arse on fire, Trump for another four years. Great, you may say, taught those neolibs a lesson. But then what? America flips socialist in 2024? AOC for pres? Accelerationism? What?

The reality is that the structure of the electoral college and the Senate means any shift left in the Dems will result in a concomitant shift right that will blow up any hope of even milquetoast European style social democratic politics there in the foreseeable future. The only hope I see for change is in the demographics. And those take time. As the boomers die off and minorities become the majority, politics will follow to a degree. In the meantime, it's a holding pattern against the extreme right. And it's fine for you to say "fuck it all" but you don't have to live under Trump and his growing cabal of leftist-hating apparatchiks.

But tell me I'm wrong. Tell me what the realistic alternative to Biden was or is in the current political environment, under the current systemic political constraints, that justifies the burn-down-the-village-to-save-it narrative? Or switch tack like some of us have done to accepting the US is what it is for now and looking at what the left can do tactically in hostile political circumstances to both gain some foothold in terms of policy and stave off another Trumpist-style administration. I'm just not hearing anything of substance from you that you haven't said a million times before that is relevant to the specific place we're in right now and what can be done about it.

It's possible to be critical of Biden and agree with @180 Proof on this. Things that aren't going to change include some important stuff like the US's pro-Israel stance, neoliberal economics etc. Things that are going to change also include important stuff like courts around the country no longer being packed with unqualified conservative extremists and renewed efforts to combat climate change. There's also the issue of minorities not having to live under an openly racist, quasi-fascist nutjob. Let's have a balanced conversation about this.

Seriously, anyone who is not as critical of Biden as they were of Trump may as well be a Trump supporter — StreetlightX

It was you who pointed out more strongly than anyone else that the focus on Trump for being Trump was misguided. You're making the same mistake with Biden (and Hillary) as far as I can see.

Probably wishful thinking on my part. Sick of the orange monkey and his entourage of clowns.

Seeing as Trump is becoming increasingly irrelevant, this thread is likely to soon outlive its usefulness and fade away. Ditto for NOS.

From the Israeli newspaper, Haaretz:

"
Achieving the Impossible, Trump May Leave the Middle East Worse Than He Found It

Trump deserves praise for brokering normalization accords between Israel and the United Arab Emirates and Bahrain, and Sudan is the latest to join the list. In exchange, each country received a gift package suited to its needs: the UAE got F-35 fighters; Sudan was removed from the list of state sponsors of terrorism; and Bahrain will get what’s left over.

But a deal of the century that would end the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, it isn’t. Trump didn’t work any miracles; he didn’t resolve a bloody conflict between Israel and any Arab state.

He gave a seal of approval to the continuation of the occupation and the annexation of the Golan Heights. He moved the U.S. Embassy to Jerusalem. And he destroyed Washington’s status as a mediator between Israel and the Palestinians, and thereby any hope of a diplomatic horizon for both Israelis and Palestinians.

...

But the crown jewel of Trump’s business doctrine was actually a liquidation: his withdrawal from the nuclear deal with Iran in 2018.

...

Trump’s efforts to heal the quarrel that pitted Saudi Arabia, Egypt and the UAE against Qatar, which hosts the largest U.S. base in the Middle East, also failed. The economic blockade that the Gulf states and Egypt imposed on Qatar resulted in the latter forging closer relations with Turkey and Iran, which have formed an alliance that seeks to replace the pro-American Arab axis.

...

We can only hope that the next U.S. presidential term will be a boring one, devoid of passions and without a clown running the world.
"


https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/.premium-trump-achieved-the-impossible-and-left-the-middle-east-worse-than-he-found-it-1.9284398

Out of context. In terms of hurting the other side, yes, he hurt Iran with that attack. But it could hardly be argued that that was a successful effort to forge peace. In fact, it almost led to a dangerous escalation.

... Of course, I'm wrong, Trump made peace in the Middle East, won the election by a landslide, and is a very stable genius. :brow:

You keep repeating this rubbish despite being refuted. So, again, Trump didn't do shit of substance in the Middle East. You can't make peace between countries that are not only not at war, but are not even in meaningful conflict. Meanwhile the parties that are in conflict, either directly or by proxy, eg. Israel, Palestine, Iran, still are, and are, in fact, further away from peace than ever due to Trump's one-sided approach, which included the inflammatory acts of relocating the US embassy to Jerusalem and withdrawing from the Iran nuclear deal.

So, Trump's efforts at "peace" amounted to nothing more than granting a Netanyahu wishlist while attempting to bribe the Palestinians with a few billon to shut them up. That failed miserably, so he was reduced to this pathetic PR effort of "normalising relations" between Israel and a few Arab countries that had no part in the conflict. He did this for one reason and one reason only, so he and his sycophants could proclaim to an ignorant public that he made "peace" in the Middle East. Utter BS, the Middle East, in terms of the protagonists that actually matter, is further away from peace than ever.

Try and remember where you last saw it. — jamalrob

Not at a Trump presser for sure.

tl;dr. "Fuck Trump".

Bitcoin has been making moves lately and cryptocurrencies in general have been proving their utility. With talk of the digital dollar and digital euro in the air, I thought it would be a good time to resurrect this thread. (Also, I'm a convert.)

Who's in and where do you think it's going?

:lol:

This is why KGB agent @NOS4A2 hasn't been banned btw, he's a @jamalrob sockpuppet. :scream:

:cheer:

The same point in every nation's history. — Michael

In some places, you're not an adult until you climb up a tree, stick your hand into a beehive, and steal a fistful of honeycomb. Not suggesting you do that, of course. Unless you really want to.

"There's been something quite beautiful about watching Trump's presidency being slowly euthanized by cold hard numbers and irrefutable facts, not so much going out with a bang but an untrustworthy liquid fart."

:fire: :100: :party:

Pretty much the same here in Europe. When the result is certain, it's over. Just be thankful that's after and not before the election like in some parts of the world. :wink:

:clap:

Fox News have started to behave themselves and I think the majority of Trump voters are accepting this defeat gracefully. The positive side of the American spirit is winning through here.

Giuliani's "fake election" presser.

Drinking Trump tears right now, baby. :razz: :kiss:

About a month ago, he put out a statement telling the UK no trade deal if they renege on their part of the deal with the EU that relates to Ireland. The House did the same.

:halo:

:100: If there's one thing America hates more than a loser, it's a sore loser. Trump is destroying himself better than any of his opponents could.

Boris is shitting a brick because Biden told him if he fucks Ireland over, no trade deal. Needless to say, Donnie won't like that a bit.

... Can those get you drunk too? :starstruck:

Celebrating the demise of Trump and his minions along with my winnings at the bookies the American way. :yum: :party: :party: :party:

Yes, and you can add that, especially in America, COVID is disproportionately affecting the poor who are just the ones who would have that fear.

:lol:



The GOP strategy from the start has been to accuse the other side of election fraud while trying to cheat their way to victory.

Why din' I think of that?? :cry:

Anecdotally, when I visited Texas, I noted two waitresses openly discussing their encounters with angels, and I don't mean the metaphorical kind.

+ Don Jr quotes Goebbels, calling for "total war".

The more the GOP reject democracy and embrace fascism and violence, the more they destroy themselves while achieving precisely nothing. Self-destruct mode.

The lead is extending. It will be in the tens of thousands. Recounts will change nothing in Pennsylvania.Trump lost the election. It is over.

He was fired.

Biden wins. Final electoral college outcome likely 306 to 232. A solid win and larger than Trump's over Clinton. As per the likely scenario outlined by pollsters such as 538. The popular vote predictions were off but state by state electoral results more or less as expected.

Georgia is going to Trump — Benkei

Just saw this. Biden is still favoured to win Georgia. It'll be very close though.

I do wonder what makes this process so protracted. — Hanover

Republicans would not let many states count mail-ins before the election for a start. Also, in Georgia, this is the first time in years they've been working from paper.

Anyway, it will likely be over soon when Pennsylvania reports a Biden win.

OK. But this better work out better than the time you told me to let my pet monkey shave my balls.

Trump has sent his thugs to Michigan to try to prevent the final votes being counted in a state Biden has clearly won (and has been called by some outlets). Absolute disgrace.

That's a lovely story. One to tell your grandkids. Anyhow, it's unlikely Pennsylvania (or GA or NC) will matter now. The map gives it to Biden with AZ, NV, WI, and MI.