AI is good at picking up patterns in images and also sounds too. We need to translate concepts/ideas/theories/whathaveyous into images/sounds, this is the hard part, and then let AI do its thing, this is the easy part. — Agent Smith

This is along the lines of how I assume Artificial Intelligence will be useful in the world of understanding the big picture questions; AI can collate unimaginably large pools of data and find the common (even outlying) patterns therein. This is, in my opinion, a asset tool to gain access to. For a lot of reasons.

...anything that looks ‘new’ is simply due to the reader’s interpretation. — I like sushi

What makes this any different from how philosophy is "done" among humans?

It would be interesting to see several AI ‘philosophers’ tackle a problem and see how well they are able to use all the philosophical works ever written to counter each others points. — I like sushi

This would indeed be interesting. I'll wager that accomplishing such a showcase wouldn't be too difficult.

Which system do you believe ‘pierces the veil’ better in understanding the mystery of the purpose of living for a 20th Century human? — David S

In my opinion, the twentieth century individual is well-served to study both and ultimately synthesize a union between the two. Please keep in mind, that I'm not an expert in either system. But from the studies and practices of philosophy and mysticism that I have engaged in/with, I've found myself with a much deeper sense of respect and awe for this reality by pulling from Eastern and Western systems simultaneously; thereby bringing those contemplations into harmony with each other.

But it's not due to the lack of their own inner awareness. It is due to their abhorrence over the apparent pretension associated to things that people say who talk about "Inner awareness". — god must be atheist

It seems we disagree here. I put credence in the notion that some folks don't value inner-sight; or don't value training their latent inwards-looking understanding. It's a conclusion that I've come to over the years of looking for a community that exudes an inner sense of awareness and competence, while being able to find only a few such groups.

But, I could be wrong! How I plead to be so.

Personally, I don't know any humans who lack inner awareness. It is indeed hard even to imagine a human without inner awareness.

I don't think this is a major problem, because it is simply isn't so. — god must be atheist

I know plenty of people who recoil in absolute horror when even a mention of "inner awareness" is uttered.

Sure does. Great quotes.

These are interesting points.

I'd like to think that the answer here is a balance (as @Agent Smith has illustrated in a previous comment) between thinking, feeling and doing. Thereby encouraging regular fasting, even if for only a short period of time, for/from each of these modes.

So, it seems to me there is a broad range of positions that some will call neo-luddite, which nevertheless are not against all technology. Sometimes people will get labelled luddites, sometimes they will even name themselves that way. But likely most of them lie on a spectrum. — Bylaw

It would be interesting to map this spectrum out, and to see where, how and why certain ideologies exist within it. I had never really considered the neo-Luddite label to be much of a spectrum; but I guess most of reality isn't so black and white.

Thank you to everyone for your responses. They are all quite thought-provoking. I'm also grateful for the responses to the poll that was posted in association with this thread.

I have much to think about, and look forward to additional dialogue.

Lucid dreaming is a phenomenon that I want to analyze. What are your thoughts about it? — Shawn

I have naturally occurring lucid dreams every night; they're like movies, they are movies, inside my head.

That's a great question. I do. But, as with everything right now, all energies are expanding or growing in intensity. This includes the unwillingness to to look inside one's self.

Expand & Elaborate ... please. — Agent Smith

In order to keep things soft, sweet and simple, I will say that once one gains a strong inner awareness, one is compelled to truly feel the shared implications of one's actions and thoughts and feelings. This empathy, that comes from opening inner space to observation and awareness, is the gift (as well as building block) that eventually leads to a new world.

Thank you Mr. Katz, I appreciate that feedback and well-wishing. I feel I am on a positive course in my life, which is the result of being open to comments and work(s) such as yours.

It was after reading a book titled "The Simulation Hypothesis", that I started giving credence to the notion that we might probably be collectively (and individually) living in a simulation. It is also important to note that the word "simulation" might be insufficient to describe the true nature of this hallucination. Words such as hologram and/or memetic might be more appropriate.

From where I'm sitting, the most important "problem" facing humanity is a lack of inner awareness.

Thank you for the links. I have downloaded "The Structure Of Ethics" PDF, and will read through it now. I am definitely open to learning more about this line of thinking. So, I appreciate your guidance on doing just that.

A good government is one that continuously improves the quality-of-life of its citizens. — Marvin Katz

IMO, a "good government" is one that enables its citizens to improve their own quality of life, as well as the lives of those around them; in a sort of volunteerism sense. A "good government" is not in charge of that process, but ensures that the ability to self-actualize is protected, made possible and sacred.

I personally agree with the sentiment(s) of your post. But I'd like to see more of a focus on encouraging individuals to create their own realities, for themselves. That is (in my estimation) what a "good government" is empowered to do.

I once wrote a book mostly in E-Prime. It’s available for free reading and download at ScienceAsNaturalTheology.org — Art48

This looks like an interesting read. I will give it a go. Thank you for the link, and the effort it must have taken to put this together.

I think mindfulness is the optimum state of mind.

Agreed. Mindfulness is the source of peace that so many struggle to find otherwise.

We can see it as an intersection both disciplines, indeed. But sooner or later you would need to pick one or other. Mysticism stills lack of demonstrative practices. It is good to debate about some theories related to knowledge and how the world should works but we need to put them in practice or at least show it both empirically and physically.

I can understand where you're coming from, at least I assume I do. But what seems to be missing from your response is an appreciation for how mysticism already plays an integral part in modern science. From the periodic table to the speed of light to the discovery of the shape of DNA, mystical states of consciousness are responsible for sudden understandings of many great scientific truths.

I would go as far as to say that (for example) Einstein was a mystic of his time; given that his habits for contemplating new and revolutionary ideas involved masterful hypnagogic daydreaming. It is the non-ordinary state of consciousness that brings about truly innovative thinking. But I could be wrong.

Religion is a caste system.

From my research, you're correct in that a new worldview is emerging. A popular title that I've seen this "new worldview" referred to as is "non-duality". Wherein the interconnectedness of all is acknowledged, leaving only a single, indivisible reality. But I think it's dangerous and shortsighted to assume that science isn't capable of embracing this emerging paradigm; call if whatever you wish.

IMO, the new worldview can be found at the intersection(s) of science and mysticism.

It is interesting to see what happens when people relax their rigid rational conceptions of events, things, aspects, qualities. We see it under alterations to consciousness with some psychoactive drugs (cannabis, psilocybin, lsd, etc). Relationships between concepts become loose, free, flowing, imaginative, creative. The space that creates for metaphorical thought is enhanced and so to is the ability to form meaning. Looking at magick in terms of some of its attributes, we can immediately see value in its processes (as described in relation to the value within Altered States of Consciousness-ASC).

To look at magick in terms of a strict doctrine that is true absolutely in every aspect is just missing the point. The point i was making in my video was that the process of imaginative conceptualisation borrowed from new age religions (even from religions) can be utilised alongside scientific knowledge to attain exactly what einsten was getting at when he said: "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind".

I think we're on the same page here.

How's it going? I'm happy to respond to each of your points and questions. Here we go...

Is this a personal belief or is there an evidence/documentation about that? Because I have a difficulty connecting Shamanism to ancient philosophy --Egyptian, Greek, Chinese or other.

There is plenty of documentation, the evidence is all around you. And I'm compiling a post for this thread (which I will release on 9/11/22) exploring what's real in detail. And if you have a difficult time connecting the dots between Shamanism and ancient human philosophy, I would encourage you to investigate Divination, Hermeticism and Gnosis.

Again what is the reference you are using regarding time? Not that it is important per se, of course, but it has to do with the validity of the history of Shamanism, which you are bringing in.

Shamanism is timeless. All entities, either directly or indirectly, rely on Shamanism (and/or mutations and products of it). 100,000 years is a simple means of implying that pragmatic approaches to altering consciousness, and then using such states for gain, have been with us (and all others) since the beginning of time.

Then, what do you mean by "and non-human"?

Every entity, any entity (from living animals to eternal tulpas) utilize elements of Shamanism. You do too, whether you acknowledge it or not.

Do you really believe that such a video or what the people do in it, can heal? Or that it can offer useful and important knowledge about life and existence, i.e. philosophical ideas, education, etc.

If you're referring to the first video I shared, then my answer is "Yes". You probably don't appreciate what you're looking at there.

However, if you're referring to the second video I shared, then my answer is "No". This video is only informational. But pursuing Technoshamanism is a path towards wisdom and healing, yes. All technologies are sacred, especially modern information technologies.

Learn to code. And ascend.

Just to make sure: Do you mean that Shamanism is more refined, of higher quality and class than philosophy as a system and quest for wisdom?

Shamanism is a systematic and philosophical quest for wisdom. So, no.

Bret, were you under drugs when you posted this?

Nope. That's rather rude of you to even ask.

I guess it would be helpful if you could give us your perspective on what Shamanism is and how its practiced.

Thank you for the inquest.

I was going to attempt an explanation in one succinct response, but that doesn't seem possible ATM. What I will do, however, is spend a couple of weeks writing a 1,000 - 3,000 word overview of my understanding of Shamanism And then when finished, I will share the essay/article here as a response in this thread.

Shamanism is an important philosophical thread in my life, and taking the time to explore why and how such is the case, will do good for those interested in learning more, as well as myself. Please be patient with my response, and understand that I will follow through with this objective. I have a lot to divulge.

Bill Hicks doesn't really have a central "channel" to find his best content. But if you search for his stand-up on YouTube, you'll find most of it.

Human consciousness is quite special, and worth nurturing to its fullest potential. Glad to see others agree.

It should also be noted that Shamanism is a timeless practice. This is to say, that Shamanism manifests in our contemporary world, just as vibrantly as it has for many tens of thousands of years. Technoshamanism is a real "thing". Here is a decent overview of the subject:



But don't take my word for it. Do your own research and experiments to verify these kinds of statements.

I don't understand what this means, it needs context, Bret. Can you demonstrate what you mean by this is a couple of sentences. What is a potent force? And how is human consciousness an example of such? And can you show us how this potent force is more potent (what does potent mean in this context?) compared to, say, nature?

Thank you for the response.

Human consciousness is the most potent force in the known Universe because it is (we are) capable of overcoming anything. Our species is quite impressive like that, IMO. Human consciousness, however relatively infantile when considering the greater trajectory of our long-term evolution as a species, can approach any/every object and integrate/assimilate said thing into our understanding of what's possible.

It is also important to recognize that human consciousness is Nature, herself. We are not separate from the Universe we inhabit. We are an expression of "it". We (as Carl Sagan implied, in one way or another) are the Universe reflecting upon itself. This is a basic contemplation of the potency and sheer significance of human consciousness.

How much of shaimanism, old and new, is about promoting faith in something objective?

That's an interesting question. The answer is, "None." Shamanism doesn't promote faith in anything. Shamanism is about firsthand, direct revelation. IOW, Shamanism is about relying on evidence. Always has been, always will be.

A true religion knows that you can only have faith in something objective, while trying to alter your consciousness seems to be a subjective practice[.]

Which is another excellent reason why Shamanism isn't a religion.

Shamanism has always been romanticised by hippies! :sweat:

To some extent you're correct. But is that inherently a negative trend? Is it so wrong that a subculture wishes to revisit our collective human roots?

More importantly, is it not possible that among the so-called "hippies", that there are genuine and earnest seekers of empirical spiritual truths?

Thank you good person, thank you. I appreciate your blessings.

Hermetics implies that there is nothing outside us that isn't inside us; as there is nothing above us that isn't below us.

Is there a physical world? Yes, but only in as much as there is a dream world.

I do, but I'm breaking open and out of my shell to more deeply engage with the world around and within me. Little by little.

To be honest, I'm intimidated to respond to the minds/posts found herein. Everyone knows so much more than me. But that is a poor excuse, as learning is the greatest resource I can offer myself ATM.

I'm here, just shell shocked.

My central so-called "absolute truth" is that human consciousness is the most potent force in the known Universe.

Oh man.

Shamanism is not a "root" of religion but it is a religion itself.

Shamanism isn't a religion. Shamanism is a set of tools.

Shamanism depends on the predicate of a prophet, called "Shaman". As much as the other religions: Christianity (Jesus as a prophet) Judaism (Abraham) etc...

Shamans aren't prophets. Anyone can be a shaman. Everyone is a shaman, most commonly without training or an awareness of such an innate state. Just like all actions are magick, so too is all consciousness shamanic; especially human consciousness.

You only have to accept what the Shaman adopts. You would not see inside shamanism different "theories" or "opposition parts" because that's only up to philosophy.

Are you religious yourself?

Shamanism depends on faith as religion. The only difference is that in shamanism you believe in the "power" of the spirits of nature instead of God.

There is no faith in shamanism. Shamanism is about evidence, showing the goods.

Woah.

You are correct. The word "magick" does imply the original Hermetic meaning of causing transformation in alignment with one's will. In terms of teaching magick to anyone, this website is a great place to start. IMO, the best way to teach magick is to both embody said subject through metaphor.

In my opinion, "magick" is nothing more than a set of practical tools for living a more fulfilling life. No different than gym class or mathematics. It is important to note that magick isn't the entire picture, but offering classes in magick would be a nice way of returning humanity to a more balanced state of harmony with our universe.

You might misunderstand the subject of magick and/or Paganism?