He who knows absolute truths is the authority all bow down to, right? — javra
The left gets busy with social causes, Use the right pronouns or we'll shame you and take away your livelihood. — fishfry
So we focus on pronouns and statues and virtue signaling. — fishfry
Whatever else religions may be, they are surely wisdom traditions, vehicles not simply for the accumulation of bland, discursive knowledge, but for personal transformation and for better states of knowledge. It doesn't seem possible to experience these things without being on the inside of a religion. But the desire for them can't be made the primary reason one converts to a religion. That reason ought to be because it is true. Unless one is reasonably confident of the latter, then attempting to experience the former will be impossible whether inside or out. On the inside, one would be forced to lie, and on the outside, one would be forced to coldly appropriate. Either way, the cognitive dissonance would be too great to give one any peace, which, in part, is precisely what one is seeking. This is why the search for whether any religion is true ought to come first and the search for similarities between religions second, which in fact will follow as a matter of course from the first. — Thorongil
...he also says 'atoms and molecules' are just as much icons as are any other kind of objects. In other words, he doesn't see atoms or molecules or any other kind of supposedly fundamental physical object as actually fundamental. What is actually fundamental, is conscious experience, and reality comprises entirely conscious agents. — Wayfarer
I see philosophy, when I talk of giants and lions, as pure, unforgiving, cruel logic applied. People are scared to think that there is a real world of ideals out there. They are scared to thing that there is no real world out there at all. They are scared to think that there is or there is not a categorical imperative of morality. They are scared to think that there is a real possiblity that there is a god out there or that there isn't. People are scared of their ordinary thoughts that they have taken for granted for years or for decades proven to be fallacies and/or self-contradictory statements. People are scared to ponder whether they are merely atuomatons, or that they actually don't have a free will at all. They are scared to realize that the world does not operate on a {good deed -- reward} basis at all times.
Those who are not scared of, and furthermore propagate and discover how logic applied to life can turn our entire weltaschauung upside-down, are the giants and the lions. — szardosszemagad
Nonetheless, I can't help feel that while I am replaceable, the world will go on, my thinking is just enough left of centre to make a contribution somewhere, somehow. I think most people in this forum and maybe everywhere probably feel a bit that way too. — MikeL
After families, friends, colleagues it closes out pretty fast. At the higher global levels of society we are really just numbers unless we do something to distinguish ourselves, but even then we are still very much just a commodity. — MikeL
I have problems with calling beaver dams and birds nests 'technology'. Neither birds nor beavers wield their behavior deliberately or consciously. Beavers, for instance, bring branches and mud to locations where there is the sound of running water. That's how they keep their dams ingot repair. Put a speaker on a perfectly fine beaver dam, play the sound of running water, and the speaker will get patched.
A bird that uses grass to make it's nest can not switch to mud, and visa versa. Bees must make 6 sided cells in their honey combs -- it can't be 3 or 4.
I don't want to diminish in any way animal lives. Beavers, birds, bees, and beetles all perform wonderfully at their live-maintaining tasks. Neither do I want to diminish our animal lives. Most animals are part of natural systems. Wetland biology depends on beavers, and pollination depends on insects like bees. Humans don't seem to belong to natural systems. That's one of the problems we grapple with. (We can certainly fit harmoniously in natural systems, but it generally means living a much different kind of life than we normally aspire to.) — Bitter Crank
Of course we are not replaceable. "You are all replaceable" is management talk for restless workers who might be thinking about organizing a union. We are all individually unique in not just one or two ways, but many ways.
Someone else can perform the boring tasks I do at work. That doesn't make me replaceable. Or you, either. — Bitter Crank
You may have a point. Maybe he was just sneaking in a jab at the "well informed cynics" ('intellectuals" too selfish to be left-wing) and the rest of the passage was aimed at a fictional ideal dummy. But there are some problems with his argument nevertheless. His fictional dummy or bad guy is "never rationally reconciled to civilization," yet I'm guessing the spirit of this book is itself as odds with the civilization that the author found himself him. His "dummies" are guilty of being too comfortable, which is to say reconciled, though perhaps not articulately. On the other hand, I completely agree that people as a rule identity with race, fatherland, etc., but I'd include communism, critique, etc., as surrogates that also belong on the list. Hork is certainly more sophisticated than the average flag-waving Joe, but he still seems wrapped up in a secular version of religion. This talk of "suppressing and abusing nature" is the give-away. It's more or less anti-human. It's one thing to defend Spaceship Earth as our habitat and life-support system and another thing to personify Nature as a victim. The magical thinking is concentrated there. (I'm more or less neutral on this go-humanity issue. My motive for reacting is largely an aesthetic distaste for the form of his rhetoric, its moves.)It looks like you read the word "cynic" in the quote and based your entire argument from there. If you re-read the quote, "well-informed cynicism" was just one briefly mentioned aspect of the type of person Horkheimer was describing, not the basis of that type of person's views. — Noble Dust
Does not life entail pursuits of one kind or another ? The man without any goals or dreams is a man already in the grave. Yet that does indeed seem to be the ultimate goal of Buddhism - those who achieve nirvana cease to reincarnate and cease to be. So the goal of Buddhism does seem to be well and truly non-existence. This leads to a very disturbing contradiction. The point of life, according to Buddhism, is to achieve permanent, eternal death (?) — John Gould
They don't necessarily need to believe in a literal Satan or a God for the results to be the same and they may not even be consciously aware that they're attempting to justify their greed as some kind of righteous standing-up for one's self. — John Days
Everywhere else in the world we look, we don't find things like printers, buses, refrigerators or computers. We find the non-technological, the natural. When compared to what we see as nature, technology looks like an aberration, as if it doesn't belong. Technology seems like a mutation of the natural order of things, an artificial aggregate of dissimilar parts and pieces that have been forced into an unnatural symbiosis. — darthbarracuda
Could it be that technology is actually one of the many ways the universe ends up organizing itself? Could what we see as artificial, technological, actually be simply a natural expression of the logic of the world?
In a way, the question comes down to: what differentiates the natural from the artificial? — darthbarracuda
Also found this quote:
“Although most people never overcome the habit of berating the world for their difficulties, those who are too weak to make a stand against reality have no choice but to obliterate themselves by identifying with it. They are never rationally reconciled to civilization. Instead, they bow to it, secretly accepting the identity of reason and domination, of civilization and the ideal, however much they may shrug their shoulders. Well-informed cynicism is only another mode of conformity. These people willingly embrace or force themselves to accept the rule of the stronger as the eternal norm. Their whole life is a continuous effort to suppress and abase nature, inwardly or outwardly, and to identify themselves with its more powerful surrogates—the race, fatherland, leader, cliques, and tradition. For them, all these words mean the same thing—the irresistible reality that must be honored and obeyed. However, their own natural impulses, those antagonistic to the various demands of civilization, lead a devious undercover life within them.”
― Max Horkheimer, Eclipse of Reason — Noble Dust
Many times I have heard it said that MRA's, including female MRA's, are misogynists. I have seen/heard words and actions that left me almost convinced that feminism--at least at this point in its evolution--has nothing to do with women or equality and is purely an ideology through which people are seeking power by any means, including lying, demonizing their opponents, deluding themselves, etc. — WISDOMfromPO-MO
I suppose the difference is between asserting one's identity freely and having it imposed by society through subtle and not so subtle expectations and (moral) norms. Only when we're capable of letting go of harmful expectations can a person be free to have their own identity.
It does make me wonder if and to what extent many people would then feel lost? Do we need some level of gender stereotyping to socially function? — Benkei
But the question of "Why?" remains. People want to know the truth and the complete truth. People want the whole story of reality. — WISDOMfromPO-MO
REAL philosophy is for lions and giants. — szardosszemagad
Or, as my old friend Paul Spenser put it, "nice guys don't even finish." — szardosszemagad
What I like most is the idea that I can live whatever type of life I want, that I'm free to pursue (or not pursue) whatever system of philosophy I like. Of course, the flip-side is to acknowledge that I'm totally responsible for my choices. I can't blame anyone else for the choices I make or the consequences that follow. — anonymous66
In other words, condoning unfairness against men as natural is a sign of the oppression of women. — WISDOMfromPO-MO