Comments

  • Spontaneous Creation Problems
    Here is the solution that occured to me, and it might not be very good. But let's say that all sorts of things do start to exist, at random. Why should we expect that different sorts of things that start existing would be able to interact with one another? Maybe stuff is popping into being all the time and it just makes no difference to us.Count Timothy von Icarus
    This is an incorrect expectation. There was just a single point that was very very hot before the Big Bang. This singularity (prior to the Big Bang) will never occur again until, maybe, this universe dies in what they call the Big Freeze, which is like the death valley. There is no explanation as to the cause responsible for the singularity. "How it forms" is not a cause.
  • Deconstructing our intuitions of consciousness
    In other words, our conscious experience correlates with the notion of individual, since it is present almost all the time, but I don’t see any proof of causality, since one can happen without the other.Skalidris
    Consciousness is not causality.
    Perception is causality.
  • Bannings
    And of course, there's the hypocritical anti-philosophy types who don't wish to be doing philosophy, and even claim not to be doing philosophy, while not having the will power to prevent themselves from doing philosophy... and so they go, into the production of depraved philosophy.Metaphysician Undercover

    :100: :grin:
  • Bannings

    Yes, I agree. The lounge should be the proper place for that if it's really unavoidable that that thread must be made. This is a philosophy forum.
    (In the past, I opened a few threads the nature of which should be suspect as to their proper places. If the moderators moved them to the lounge, that's where they should be).
  • ChatGPT obsoleting Encyclopaedia and Textbooks?
    In case of the online information such as from WiKi or ChatGPT, the editors, publishers, scholars ..etc source information can be unknown or vague. And also the quality and accuracy of the information could be a bit suspicious too.

    I prefer relying on the information from the traditional printed books and articles for the clearer information of the source, editors, writers and publishers.
    Corvus
    It's more than a preference, but yes, I voted that the printed books are very relevant. There are legal properties attached to the physical copies of a book -- it is a tangible property which is regulated by the distribution, copyrights, printing, plagiarism laws. Out-of-print books could be re-printed. The years (20xx) and number of copies printed become its valuable properties.
  • ChatGPT obsoleting Encyclopaedia and Textbooks?
    With the advent of A.I. and the use of ChatGPT getting popular, I wonder if all the Encyclopaedia and Textbooks become obsolete. Would it be the case, or the textbooks and Encyclopaedia will still be in demand?Corvus

    I did not vote. When you say with the "advent of AI and the use of ChatGPT" --are you saying we are also doing away with the editors, publishers, scholars, and reviews of the references and citations? Because those were what it took to create those books.

    The scholars are researchers who are the specialists of a given subject matter.

    So, I don't understand the question. And are you also including in your question the copyrights? Is authorship also obsolete?
  • About definitions and the use of dictionaries in Philosophy
    Philosophy has its own lexicon that's different from politics, for example. — L'éléphant

    Do you refer to a particular lexicon, like a specialized dictionary or encyclopedia --e.g. Oxford Dictionary of Philosophy, Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy, etc.-- or a personal vocabulary, based on their own personal meanings of terms?
    If it's the first case, what Philosophy lexicon are you using?
    Alkis Piskas
    Yes, those dictionaries. But also, from the writings of the philosophers themselves, which are not dictionaries themselves. Their books are filled with definitions/meanings.
  • About definitions and the use of dictionaries in Philosophy
    2) How can they expect to communicate effectively with others if they don't know the standard, common, agreed upon definitions/meanings of terms (with all their variations depending on context ) or if they have their own, personal, different definitions/meanings according to their own views and reality?
    One can always of course describe one's own definition/meaning of a term --nothing bad about it-- but at least they should make that clear if that definition/meaning departs from the standard, common, agreed upon definition and meaning. Isn't that right?
    Alkis Piskas

    That being said, anyone who gives you flak for daring to use a dictionary should be red flagged in your mind. Anyone who resists clear definitions is likely a charlatan who will continue to twist and retwist the meaning any time you think you get a handle on it and it points to a contradiction. Discussing with people like this can be a waste of time, so be careful.Philosophim

    These explanations are why we have something called a lexicon. In any given body of knowledge, population, community, and language in general, there is the lexicon that we abide by, naturally and automatically.

    Philosophy has its own lexicon that's different from politics, for example. When the political news refer to the "world", they mean the countries that make up the human population.

    Just because this is a public forum that welcomes everyone, it doesn't mean we can just join and start a conversation using an entirely new lexicon that is personalized to our own desires. We can challenge everything you say that's outside the lexicon of philosophy (unless of course, you want to talk about films, or music, or fiction, or any popular reads).

    That said, a dictionary is created by the lexicographers, so using it in the philosophical discussion is a reasonable means.
  • There is No Such Thing as Freedom
    One cannot be both his own slave and his own master.NOS4A2
    Good point. We are what our mind is -- which includes conscience and ego. So, we really can't say we are imprisoned by our own mind. That is our essence. The lions in the wilderness are said to be free. They're not trapped in their lionness.

    The only way we can assert freedom in this sense is to use the rational deliberation of our actions. The likes of Aristotle, Kant, and Mill argue for this kind of freedom. Even if one is physically imprisoned in a cell or shackled by chains, they can still think rationally.

    Consider insults, for example. Insults are effective at causing pain to some but not to others. Some people couldn't care less about what was said about them. They are free of the pain caused by the words directed at them.

    And this is really the gist or the point of talking about lack of freedom. If we have no freedom, for example, how does that affect us negatively? Are we locked up in a cell unable to do what we wish or need to do? Then we don't have freedom.

    Oh, we're not locked up and chained? Then we are talking about a different kind of freedom or the lack thereof.
  • What is the way to deal with inequalities?
    The acceptance and appreciation of individuality.Vera Mont
    This will work if we stop listening to the publicity and marketing.
  • The objectively best chocolate bars
    I am not a sweets eater in general. I would get sick and vomit if I eat a lot of chocolates or cakes or other sweet stuff. My limit is the size of a bite size chocolate bar.
    That said, the pictures here look delicious. And also, of course, chocolates have that ingredient flavanol that is good for health.

    Chocolates also come in pink:

    PKLDTWJMNJM77DRDW4XQQHNHUI.jpg?auto=webp
  • The Philosophy of 'Risk': How is it Used and, How is it Abused?
    So find laws where the punishment is X fine without jail time and so long as you're poised to make a greater reward than the fine, break the law, pay the fine, reap the profits.Vaskane
    :smile:
  • Are some languages better than others?
    Are you just identifying your subjective opinion, or are you saying something objective?

    As in, you think you better express yourself with painting than sculpture, or are you saying that sculpture is the truly best way to express certain perspectives?

    Seems the former would be the only sustainable claim.
    Hanover
    Dude, to say something is "better" is a subjective opinion.
    So, I don't understand what the confusion is about.
  • Are some languages better than others?
    For me it is clear that languages are different and that if there is a difference then one is to be better than another.I like sushi
    Yes, I'd say one is better than another, to me (being a multilingual). One is good for daily spoken language, but not for writing a powerful declamation. Another is writing comedy -- I would have to switch the style or even the type of comedy with one language, and use another style and topic if using another language.

    (I shouldn't say "better" -- it is politically and culturally unacceptable to say this).
  • A Digital Physics Argument for the existence of God
    Firstly, it should be obvious that we can read, understand and interpret bits. Second, our perception is literally composed of what a bit is - a binary distinction. You either see an object or your don't. You either distinguish something from another, or you don't. Our perception is completely dependent on binary distinctions.Hallucinogen
    Clearly you do not understand what you're talking about.
  • A Normative Ethical Dilemma: The One's Who Walk Away from Omelas
    IMO, that's instrumental reasoning (re: things, i.e. means-to-ends) and not moral reasoning (re: persons, i.e. ends-in-themselves)180 Proof
    In Nicomachean, the "means to an end" is part of moral reasoning. But Aristotle was focusing on the means, because the end has already been decided, so the one thing left to decide on is the means to achieve it. Note that he didn't believe in 'whatever it takes' to get there.
  • A Digital Physics Argument for the existence of God
    Pictures can be represented in bits and bits can be processed to produce a picture. So I don't recognise the mutual exclusivity that serves as the basis of your reply.Hallucinogen
    Our mind does not read bits. We use perception to view the world. In pictures -- which means a complete picture.

    They both use information processing. Saying that one of them "reads" some substrate that isn't information isn't going to be defensible.Hallucinogen
    Information processing is perception in humans. Computers do not perceive. There is no vantage point with computers.
  • A Normative Ethical Dilemma: The One's Who Walk Away from Omelas
    So, there’s a certain moral perfection to a society where no-one goes astray, where there is no crime, people cooperate fully etc., but the emptiness of this social morality is highlighted by the cost necessary to achieve it.Baden
    Okay, good exegesis!

    @Bob Ross, Nicomachean does not condone moral perfection at the expense of the happiness of others.
  • A Digital Physics Argument for the existence of God
    I'm confused why you mention this - computers do "use" bits, and our minds do understand the world in pictures. This is an example of why my points are rushed and undefined?Hallucinogen

    No, I'm the one confused with the above comment. I pointed that the computer does not read the way our mind reads. Yet you said this:

    3. Quantum cognition and decision theory have shown that information processing in a mind exhibits quantum principles known to underlie the emergence of physical space.
    4. From (2) and (3), the information processing from which physical space is emergent is scientifically indistinguishable from the information processing that occurs in a mind.
    Hallucinogen
    Check your premises #1 and #2. You are arguing that the mind reads like how a computer does.
    This is false.
  • A Normative Ethical Dilemma: The One's Who Walk Away from Omelas
    I don't quite follow: doesn't Aristotle believe that the good is objective?Bob Ross
    Here is Book II:

    Since then the object of the present treatise is not mere speculation, as it is of some others (for we are enquiring not merely that we may know what virtue is but that we may become virtuous, else it would have been useless), we must consider as to the particular actions how we are to do them, because, as we have just said, the quality of the habits that shall be formed depends on these.

    Now, that we are to act in accordance with Right Reason is a general maxim, and may for the present be taken for granted: we will speak of it hereafter, and say both what Right Reason is, and what are its relations to the other virtues.[4]

    But let this point be first thoroughly understood between us, that all which can be said on moral action must be said in outline, as it were, and not exactly: for as we remarked at the commencement, such reasoning only must be required as the nature of the subject-matter admits of, and matters of moral action and expediency have no fixedness any more than matters of health. And if the subject in its general maxims is such, still less in its application to particular cases is exactness attainable:[5] because these fall not under any art or system of rules, but it must be left in each instance to the individual agents to look to the exigencies of the particular case, as it is in the art of healing, or that of navigating a ship. Still, though the present subject is confessedly such, we must try and do what we can for it.
    He is not arguing for a universal, objective right reason.
  • A Digital Physics Argument for the existence of God
    4. From (2) and (3), the information processing from which physical space is emergent is scientifically indistinguishable from the information processing that occurs in a mind.Hallucinogen
    Incorrect. All your premises are rushed, and without definitions. For example, if computers use bits, our mind reads the world as pictures.

    #6 is fallacious.
  • A Normative Ethical Dilemma: The One's Who Walk Away from Omelas
    What normative ethical theory do you subscribe to? A form of deontology, perhaps virtue ethics?Bob Ross
    Yes. Nicomachean ethics. Virtue ethics. Because we don't waste our time debating about its being objective or its being relative.
  • A Normative Ethical Dilemma: The One's Who Walk Away from Omelas
    Can we morally justify sacrificing people for the greater good, especially if it is a huge sacrifice (like getting tortured constantly)?Bob Ross
    No we cannot. And the reason for this is, all of us do not have the moral entitlement to live. None!

    I find it amusing that with the hundreds and thousands of posts here at TPF, we're still not getting the point of ethics and morality. Entitlement is not the same as being treated as a moral agent. If you live in a civilized society, you have the right to be treated ethically, within reason. But to intentionally break a moral principle, so others could continue to live is unethical. If you have the money to buy the body organs, enticing the financially desperate and the greedy people to give up their lives so you could preserve your health, you're immoral and a criminal.
  • Is Judith Thomson’s abortion analogy valid?
    Is Judith Thomson’s abortion analogy valid?
    No, it isn't. It is a false analogy. In a false analogy, the two ideas share one common aspect, nothing else.
  • The Anarchy of Nations
    Through membership in organizations such as the United Nations, those in power get together and afford each other the natural rights that would make a lowly anarchist seethe with envy. Perhaps ironically, that dreaded State of Nature Hobbes so feared is regnant on the international stage, based as it is on his conception as the state as a person.NOS4A2
    The whole is greater than the sum of its parts.
    A State has its own legal existence that the individuals that make up its population do not enjoy. I would say it's a naïve view, or even ignorant, to think that the nations exist purely to take care of its population -- food, shelter, well-being. Nations are political and governmental in essence. You must have forgotten that the memoirs of the ancient emperors were full of the rise and fall of their fortunes.
  • Coach Sean McDermott's 9/11 reference. Any justification?
    Like Von Miller and the assault charges against him, etc.TiredThinker
    And she was pregnant.
  • The Philosophy of 'Risk': How is it Used and, How is it Abused?
    What did Aristotle have to say?jgill
    Have you noticed that there's no philosophy of risk because the point of philosophy is the contemplation of the world. It's a passive activity.

    A nuclear plant disaster would vindicate both the stoics and the cynics. The former would accept it rationally and move on. The cynics would have plenty to write about.
  • The Philosophy of 'Risk': How is it Used and, How is it Abused?
    There is an inflated sense of belief in the power to measure risk, especially with technology, including artificial intelligence. From what I have seen, reliance on such technology often results in gross errors. It is likely that genuine risks are underplayed rather than overplayed.Jack Cummins
    Where then should we rely on?

    Sorry, but 100% of all nuclear plant disasters were caused by human error and inadequate training. Ignoring warnings and complacence.

    Honestly, we're doomed. We are the catalyst of our own extinction. At any given moment, we are building the AI to become our future's demise. Here's a thought experiment: imagine a world full of AI. No procreation needed as they could build their own family members and friends. They would be the aliens that we never had -- you know, the UFOs. We would be the creators of a population of aliens and UFOs. Problem solved.
  • The Philosophy of 'Risk': How is it Used and, How is it Abused?
    One of the disadvantages for misuse which I see is the potential for identifying risk factors and seeing them in a concrete way rather than as possibilities.Jack Cummins
    Nuclear war comes to mind. Prevention is everything, because the actuality of it is the end of it all. So, we do not have the luxury of waiting for it to happen to assess how much risk we are taking. We need to have zero occurrence for it happening -- which means:
    In particular, when risks are identified, especially in risks of human action is if the risks are taken too concretely.Jack Cummins
    We need to take the risks concretely.

    It is in the context of actual and virtual possibilities that I am asking the question of the nature of risk. What is reliable and imaginary, and how do the two come together in proactive and preventative measures in sound philosophical thinking?Jack Cummins
    The central intelligence have the power to assess the possibilities. Of course you are asking in terms of philosophy. So, what then? Empirical tests and observations, which rests on what reality we're talking about. If we're talking about the ordinary world, then there's your answer. But if you're thinking about the reality of Schrodinger's cat, then you can have all the thought experiments you want.
  • Autonomic Thesis that Continuation is the Goal
    Aren't you sort of generalizing that all self-destructive people are irrational?kudos
    Yes.

    Most people who choose a path, destructive or not, have some grounds for doing so.kudos
    Now you're intentionally blurring the lines. I no longer know what you really mean here.

    Carrying over to the mainstream of the conversation, in a climate where your freedom of choice were under arrest, wouldn't a rebellious path with aim of liberating the freedom of the individual be worth taking?kudos
    Meaning to self-destruct? If one dies for a cause, that's one thing. But if one just waste away because of discontentment, then that's a problem.
  • Autonomic Thesis that Continuation is the Goal
    So the choice was between renouncing beliefs -meaning teaching truth, wisdom, and philosophy to Athenian youths - and death. So how was it not self destructive to choose death?kudos
    No, you misunderstood. To him, any of the choices of punishment is like death. I mentioned those already -- exile, renounce his beliefs, and death are all similar in effect.

    See below, for javra's take on it:

    Moreover, were he to choose exile and a renunciation of his beliefs rather than concede to his sentence of death, this would have served to obliterate the cause which he strove for. So, especially given that all choices pointed toward the destruction of his own identity, conceding to die was that one option what best served his cause.javra
    :100:
  • Autonomic Thesis that Continuation is the Goal
    Hey, as to being debased by others, “javra” does translate into “cur”javra
    I see. :grin: I've never used this word before.

    It would be appropriate at this point to ask you for clarifcation on what you mean by 'nurture and tenderness' and 'chaos and suffering.' This assessment would be opposite of someone who has achieved control over the 'will to power' as regards their attributed circumstances. Don't you find such individuals tend to come from backgrounds of adversity and pain? Would you represent this kind of character as common of someone who has been catered to every whim and pleasure their entire life?kudos
    Sorry, I still don't see how the "will to power" amounts to self-destruction and that the natural tendency to not choose chaos and suffering automatically betrays their background as the reason for being so. I was trying to tell you that even in the wild, they wouldn't choose self-destruction. Socrates was doomed and he knew it. Exile was not an option because he was old and didn't want to be separated from his loved ones. In essence, he was already destroyed by the powers that be. His choices -- exile, renounce his beliefs, or death -- all points towards the destruction of his identity.

    Are we making up stuff as we go along in this thread? Because as I see it, statements like yours are generalizations with no basis.
  • What characterizes the mindset associated with honesty?
    I've sent them images of the process in the inbox, even how to quote. I think there's a language barrier.Vaskane

    :up:

    -on the part of the little monkey, that isBella fekete
    Tell me what you mean.
  • Autonomic Thesis that Continuation is the Goal
    :lol:

    I have no words at the moment.
  • What characterizes the mindset associated with honesty?
    If you want to alert a poster that you quoted them, click on the @ icon on the ribbon, just above, then type the first and second letter and you should get the correct hit for the poster's name.
  • Project Q*, OpenAI, the Chinese Room, and AGI
    The reason for ChatGPT’s inadequate answer the above mouse query (and to others like it that I have posed) is that ChatGPT is trapped in the Chinese Room. It has access only to arbitrary linguistic shapes. Because semantic regularities are often mirrored by linguistic ones, it can answer many queries in ways that seem eerily intelligent. Even so, it will always lag human intelligence.Jonathan Waskan
    This. The ChatGPT's first mistake is not understanding what a thing is -- it is carved out with holes for eyes and mouth. So its concern about the mouse not able to breathe is already misplaced. It's like talking to someone whose society did not know about jack-o-lanterns. Not bad at all, but there's the kink already.

    But here's a real-life human interaction I just had. We went through a fast food drive-through. It was an AI that greeted us. We recited our orders and the AI responded accordingly. As with the human interaction, there's always a clear indication that one's order is complete. But then, the AI started asking if "we would like to order this, or that". We said no, that'll do it. However, it continued to offer a thing on the menu. So, my friend thought, how do we stop it from talking? haha.

    One might think that the problem has to do with the expressions lacking ‘grounding’ in the real world. But purely from an engineering perspective, what ChatGPT lacks is internal representations that are more richly isomorphic to the real world.Jonathan Waskan
    This and other things.
  • What characterizes the mindset associated with honesty?
    Society runs on trust, and therefore needs to deter and prevent dishonesty. And this cannot be reversed because the dependence is one way, linguistically.unenlightened
    This is the key to the narrative regarding honesty (or dishonesty).

    In my previous post, I maintained that honesty is a situational behavior, not a permanent trait. And that works with the fidelity of a given society or population.

    Trustworthiness (fidelity) is, to me, the word more appropriate with a trait. (I can argue for this if anyone challenges it).
  • Autonomic Thesis that Continuation is the Goal
    Yeah, but what was he accused of, and why didn’t he stop?kudos
    I'm not sure. It's a matter of debate as this is Socrates.