Comments

  • Existential depression is a rare type of depression. Very few people probably have experienced it.
    Do you have any defences against what you describe?
    Have you encountered any personal thoughts, distractions etc, that reduce the impact of the notions you describe?
    Is every moment of your life OWNED by what you describe or are there 'better' moments from time to time?
  • Antinatalism Arguments

    "that I have dismantled over the years."
    This is how delusional some antinatalists are.
    You are attempting to use rational argument against fundamentalist style ossification.
    The continued existence of humanity and it's future expansion into space, is the best answer to antinatalists. The best aspect of the antinatalist position, is if the human race ever does go extinct, for whatever reason, we wont have to ever endure their exclamations of 'we told you so,' as they will all be extinct.
    They are an utter irrelevance, to the vast vast majority of people deciding whether or not to have children.
    I have NEVER heard any young couple say 'well we chose to not have children, because of the global power of the antinatalist movement.' :lol: I don't think I ever will hear such!
  • Culture is critical
    Make up your mind what you're measuring, human evolution or access to satellites? They don't progress in the time-frame or scale.Vera Mont

    Measure everything in every way we know how to and then see if we can find new ways to measure everything again. Access to satellites does not happen before human evolution, so there is a very definite time order to such events. I am measuring what I would call 'change' in the options available to humans alive today, compared to, in much earlier times.

    At what points in history have which 'truths' won what conflicts?Vera Mont
    That's a very big and somewhat subjective list you are requesting. I can offer you one set of 'points in history' that I would put near the top of my list for being 'truths' that ultimately 'won' a human conflict.

    First Servile War (135−132 BC) — in Sicily, led by Eunus.
    Second Servile War (104−100 BC) — in Sicily, led by Athenion and Tryphon.
    Third Servile War (73−71 BC) — on mainland Italy, led by Spartacus.


    These rocked the Roman empire to it's core. Events such as the English civil war, all revolutionary wars, the American civil war, WW I, WW II, all contributed to the eventual human victory against human slavery. State sanctioned slavery is now, globally, almost non-existent. The 'truth' that 'civilised' humans reject enslaving other humans has been 'won' imo, with global slavery now reduced to embers of what it once was. All humanity past and present can be proud of that 'victory.'
  • Culture is critical

    90 seconds is 39,375 years in the cosmic calendar so, That's not too bad a deal!
    Perhaps not 'bred better' but certainly a lot more of the global population has access to a lot more info than in the past, and we can communicate more, as you and I are demonstrating now, on this thread.
    I am sure your struggle with your own 'jading' will continue, and it's not yet all pervasive.
    It can't be or you could not be bothered to debate the points you debate on TPF.
    Even though you choose to output such defeatist commentary, as:
    this hopeful, wishful, wistful wisp of BS:
    When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won.
    — universeness
    Vera Mont
    I am not such a fan as gandhi was, in HIS notion of love, as he employs it above, but I fully agree with his use of 'truth' above.
  • Antinatalism Arguments

    One topic, only needs one soap box.
  • Antinatalism Arguments

    Don't get over-excited auld yin! :lol: Yer nuts will shrivel even mair than they already huv!
  • Culture is critical
    Maybe truth and love will triumph in the end , but they sure haven't yet.Vera Mont

    This is the year 2023. Evolution via natural selection had 13.8 billion years.
    The genus homo has only been here for a small duration in the cosmic calendar.
    10,000 years of tears and bloody conflict is only 23 seconds in the cosmic calendar.
    Give us a freakin chance Vera!!!!!! The Genus Homo never even arrived until 9:25pm on Dec 31st!

    Cosmic_Calendar_%28extended_by_%22The_Final_Second%22%29.png
  • Culture is critical
    The word democracy means- a system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives.Athena

    I prefer the definition of democracy as governance of, for and by the people.

    You have some eccentric views of what might still be labelled as 'democratic' or 'partially democratic.'
    I demand undiluted democracy and any intermediate state of affairs means the fight continues.
    Promising Athenian men a vote if they role play galley slaves is not 'introducing democracy as a right in law. It's a compromise for nefarious reasons which can be removed without the democratic mandate of the entire population, just like Rode vs Wade was removed in the USA.

    Athens did not take care of everyone as Sparta did,Athena

    What do you mean, Sparta took care of everyone? They had a savagely enforced hierarchy of privilege.
    Those in servitude to them lived in much more 'spartan' conditions than those higher up the hierarchy.
    Any surplus people or weak people they considered no longer useful, were disposed of.
  • Culture is critical
    Primitive human societies consciously invented social controls against hubris, vanity, greed and lust for power. Civilized codes of morality and law are intended to do much the same, but are far less effective, or else have the opposite effect in stratified, stupefied organizations.Vera Mont

    I broadly agree. Years ago, I read about (and then saw it dramatised in a movie called 'The Fall of The Roman Empire' (I think)) such an attempt by the Roman senate.
    It was tradition to welcome any conquering hero at the head of Rome's legions via a parade through the streets of Rome. The senate insisted that a slave be placed behind the returning hero, in their chariot.
    The slave's job was to regularly whisper, throughout the celebrations, into the ear of the hero, that he was just a man. 'Do not forget that thou art a mere man, a mere mortal.' Not a very successful system, in hindsight, but I am sure we can do better today.

    What's the difference, if they're followed anyway - whether in spite of their badness or because of it?Vera Mont
    Because what gandhi said is not only true, it will eventually become the solution that happens faster and faster and with less and less damage. Eventually tyrants holding significant power, will become as impossible as is possible. In my opinion Ukraine should already have resulted in WW 3, but I remain quite hopeful that it will not.
    “When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always.” ― Mahatma Gandhi
  • Antinatalism Arguments

    I think Mr Schop1 has been able to sneak in a few new antinatalist threads since the move the mods made to put them all under 1 title.

    Anti-natalism is pointless. It's not like mother earth wouldn't reestablish life if it was snuffed out, as it has many times before. Mass extinctions occur. But life as a whole, persists.Benj96

    I have made a similar point many times when discussing antinatalism. Life existing in the universe is, has, and always will be, a natural consequence of very large variety in every combination possible and my main evidence, is the fact that it has already happened that way.
    The antinatalists on TPF don't seem to be concerned with the general existence of 'life' in the universe, they just think that the best cure for human suffering, is no more humans, it's as banal and irrational as that.
  • Culture is critical
    "just a housewife".Athena

    I have never understood that phrase and even as a het, sis, man, I find it offensive.
    Housewife/husband, home maker etc, when in truth is a very demanding job why looks like it requires a great deal of skill and patience to become good at. I am glad I have never had to do that job.

    Where would you like to go with this discussion of cultural differences?Athena
    Athens adopted democracy from SpartaAthena

    In what way do you consider Sparta, to have been democratic?
    From Spartapedia.com:
    Classical Sparta produced a nearly unique socio-political structure in history. The structure employed elements of monarchy, oligarchy and democracy combined with a highly stratified class system. Its chief characteristic was its totalitarianism; the individual served the state, and not vice versa.

    When you drill down a little further, the elements of democracy, suggested above, are a 'stretch' to say the least. Do you see any possible democracy that can come from;
    "The Spartiates were the only full citizens and they owned the majority of the fertile land in Laconia and later Messenia which the helots worked for them. "
  • Boltzmann brains: In an infinite duration we are more likely to be a disembodied brain

    Yeah, I think I get at least the main jist, of all the points made.
    I only cited paradox just to exemplify the notion of 'we just cant currently know.'
    This is probably all we can say for sure, regarding the existence of Boltzmann Brains.
    In science, no theory can go further than the theory stage! No scientific theory can be declared FACT.
    No matter how good the evidence, because exhaustive testing is impossible.
  • Culture is critical
    the invention of money and religion the two worst ideas of civilization.Vera Mont
    Never have more truthful words been typed or spoken Vera!!! :clap: :clap: :flower: and repeated by so many.

    I admire and excoriate individual persons, respect and disdain certain attitudes - not entire nations.Vera Mont
    I damn entire 'systems of governance' and via that, the nation or population that either supports it or does not do enough to change it. I also admire individuals. Even historical leaders like Spartacus or whoever the true leaders were, but more importantly, those every day people who rose up in slave revolts/revolutions etc. I have little interest in nationhood other than as a stepping stone to global unison. One planet, one species.

    Yet you have no reticence in retroactively imposing your own legal code on past civilizations, trashing regimes with which you disagree and proclaiming the superiority of 'modern' thinking over other eras and western values over other cultures.Vera Mont

    I don't know where you get this notion of 'modern thinking.' The thoughts I have regarding a better way for human beings, to make a better global human civilisation, are not 'modern' or new, they are modern and ancient. Socialism and secular humanism has existed since the genus homo came into being, imo.
    Altruism even exists in the animal world.

    It seems to me that you seem to enjoy playing devil's advocate, just for the fun of doing so at times Vera. You will type words to indicate that you yourself, do not approve of Ancient Greek society;
    I don't. In fact, I consider civilization the wrong turn in human evolutionVera Mont
    and at the same time, you accuse me of having a lack of reticence, when I outright damn systems such as the ones employed by the Spartans, Greeks, Romans etc.
    You can choose a more gentil approach if you wish, but I choose to be less of a snowflake about calling savage behaviour savage.

    Yes, humanity is still humanity: it still contains all the same elements that stone age, bronze age and medieval populations did, satisfies the same drives with ever more sophisticated tools.Vera Mont

    No, we need to be a little louder than that and a little more insistent, that the savage side of nature, needed in our days in the jungle is NO LONGER REQUIRED!

    Some of us wish it would improve [ie fall in line with our own world-view]; some wish it so sincerely and passionately that we imagine ways such improvement could be brought about, insist that it's already happening and we just need to fight a little harder, believe a little more fervently to achieve the perfection of humankind.Vera Mont

    Now you are sounding a little better Vera! I know you have become a little jaded. Apathy is just good people losing heart, when in truth they are still doing the best they can, to combat nefarious people and nefarious practice. But 'perfection' is merely a placeholder to be forever asymptotically reached for. It is not a state we ever will, or need to, achieve.

    If some become to tired to continue to fight the good fight, then let them lie and stew in disappointment with their own species, if they wish. That's just another small win for the for ever, very active nefarious.
    When it comes to those humans who are only interested in themselves and those they care about and don't care one jot about anyone or anything else OR they follow 'silly' divine dictates, then I will remain in opposition to them, for ever. No matter what culture they prefer or claim is critical.

    Bad people exist in all cultures, modern and ancient but I DO think that they CAN be more easily identified and held to account today, than in the past.
  • Boltzmann brains: In an infinite duration we are more likely to be a disembodied brain
    That said, better my thread than Bartricks'.Down The Rabbit Hole
    Again, absafragginlootly! I think I maybe over-using that colloquialism.
  • Boltzmann brains: In an infinite duration we are more likely to be a disembodied brain
    But my point, aside from the fun, is that there will be an infinite number of Boltzmann EnterprisesPatterner

    How do you account for 'paradox' in your 'every possibility that can happen, will happen in time.'
    If I state 'The only true existent regarding Boltzmann brains is that they have no true existent.'
    Is that statement true given a very large or even infinite duration of time?
  • Boltzmann brains: In an infinite duration we are more likely to be a disembodied brain

    Picard or 'Patrick Stewart' is just too 'Shakespearian' for me. I still love TNG of course.
    I have finished watching Picard season 2, and Discovery season 4 and I have started watching Strange new worlds, season 1. I don't buy the cartoon ones such as 'below decks.' I only buy the DVD sets when they become available. I cant be bothered watching a series, in a episodic style, as they come on-line.
    I prefer to play catch up, and watch the DVD's under my terms, rather than under the terms imposed by some broadcaster. The Picard arc is a bit bizarre here and there. I am not too keen on the Borg storyline and the 'pop up' moment of 'Wesley Crusher' that seems to have been pointless.
    Addition: I also hated Picard's 'reincarnation' after he was killed!
    I am happy to enjoy this divergence from the OP in this thread, as it's your thread, but the mods may insist such 'chat' style exchanges, be moved to the shoutbox or the lounge.
    Addition 2: The 'Discovery' series storylines have been ok, but the amount of teary eyed exchanges and 'breathy' emotional exchanges between the characters, has almost totally destroyed the impact of the show imo.
  • Boltzmann brains: In an infinite duration we are more likely to be a disembodied brain

    My dibs are bigger that your dibs :lol: The neverending claim of all historical and current gangsters/heros/nations and so called, attempts at human civilisations.
    Sorry, I am experiencing some cognitive crossover between this thread and the other that I am posting on right now, 'Culture is Critical.'
  • Culture is critical

    :grin: Yeah, I don't think there is anywhere in the world you could visit, if your pre-requisite was 'the people of this land have no 'savagery' in their history.' I think none of us could leave our front door and may not even be able to remain in our own house.
    One of my best friends is a German! :lol:
  • Culture is critical
    They would kill or abandon defective children.
    Your code of law and ethics do not apply to that culture.
    Vera Mont
    My code of law and ethics did not apply to the Nazis in the 20th century, as far as they were concerned, when they murdered lots of innocent people, just like the Spartans did. That's why I damn their 20th century notions of civilisation, as equally, as I damn the Spartan one, which lasted far longer, from 8th century BCE to about 200 BCE. Crime is crime, it does not reduce in it's potency or injustice due to the passage of time.

    You are absolutely correct that the Spartans and the Nazis have no monopoly on behaving like savages.
    Every attempt at founding a human civilisation has 'savage' behaviour as an element.
    It's just that some, like the Spartans, Nazis, Romans etc, etc had honed and employed utter savagery as one of the main drivers of their governance.

    All current humans should be ashamed and angry towards such examples of 'how to build a human civilisation.' There are a lot of statues that are still erected, that I would tear down. There are a lot of butchers and horrors that existed in the past that remain soooooooo admired, even revered, and are held up as that which WE and OUR children should emulate. When in truth, we should all spit on their memorialisations. I find it incredible that the French still admire Napoleon and the British still admire Churchill, We still call Alexander, 'Great' and Caesar was so lauded, that other nations used his name to make their autocratic titles, such as Tsar/Csar, Shah, Kaiser etc. It's totally moronic, skewed thinking, imo.

    We talk about our admiration of the Greek civilisation, but we consider them the bad gangsters when it comes to Troy but then good gangsters, when it comes to the Persians. :roll:
    Then we use excuses for such bad thinking, such as, 'we tend to support the underdogs.' Instead of seeing all the leaders involved in these wars as Mafia style bosses of armies of duped, mostly savage, brutalised people. In other words just gangland style BS, trying to pass itself of as 'we are spreading culture! our culture! which is obviously the best culture! and is divinely sanctioned!' :roll: :scream:
    Honestly!! What an utter bunch, of utter BS!! All these models and means of founding a human civilisation, in NO WAY warrant the inclusion of 'civil' or the concept of 'nation.' They were all built on bloody conquest and involved the slaughter of more innocents than they did gangsters killing gangsters.
    It was about stealing the resources of the other side and gaining personal wealth and status by doing so. It was as basic as that and nothing more glamourous than that.
    SHAME on all those vile historical gangsters! They are still with us, which is why I am a secular humanist and a socialist and I despise capitalism.
  • Boltzmann brains: In an infinite duration we are more likely to be a disembodied brain

    Absafragginlootly! and WHEN I gain full possession, the first things I will do, is drop 'Boltzmann' from the name, and go looking for a qualified Captain who looks a little bit like William Shatner or, if I am pushed, Scott Bakula or maybe even Avery Brooks :chin:
  • Culture is critical

    In Sparta, if you were disabled at birth, or had a mental illness as a child, they would murder you.
    Mostly you were thrown from a high hill, or left for the animals to eat you.
    Children were removed from their mother at a young age and brutalised and militarised, very early.
    They were a vile civilisation, that is bizarrely celebrated by the West, as a nation of brave warriors who fought the 'evil Persians.' I speak as a het sys, white, western male, and I think the Persian's were easily, as civilised as the Greeks and certainly more so, than the savage Spartans.
    Hitler admired the Spartan system of 'militarisation of their youth,' from an early age and the 'weeding'out of the weak members of their society.
    He also admired the German order of the Teutonic knights, who were also a brutal order, who fought in the crusades.
  • Culture is critical
    I hope you can take further into this awareness.Athena

    So, why not stick for now to comparing the Spartans with the Athenians, the Thesbians and Thebes,
    Rhodes, Corinth, Argos etc. The influence of the Greek city states on islands like Crete and Cyprus.
    The Trojan War etc, etc. The Romans came much later and the Spartans were more Nazi like, than even the Romans imo.
  • Culture is critical
    Anyway, isn't it helpful to see a modern example of thinking about the gods/aliens and humans?Athena

    Yeah, I liked how B5's author, Joseph Michael Straczynski used the Vorlons to represent the ancient notions of gods and angels and the Shadows as Satanic demons. He used such to appeal to those sci-fi fans who thought that high tech aliens, could easily be mistaken by humans, for deities.
    It was a great foundation for a very entertaining and thought provoking story arc that was dramatised over a 5 year span of series, a number of movies and an attempt at a spin-off series.
  • Culture is critical

    Well Steven Pinker did a fairly good job of pointing out the overall improvements since the days of the ancients, with his 72 charts in the 'Enlightenment Now' book.
    R.2358a31db80b95b3ee7c3d9af3710650?rik=SFU%2buFjHkJEi7Q&riu=http%3a%2f%2fwww.32books.com%2fwp-content%2fuploads%2f2018%2f06%2fEnlightenment-Now-Steven-Pinker-1.jpg&ehk=SIUz5wLmVd6%2boc1Hdkgg2EiFORSs5oQv4boU%2bpncYA8%3d&risl=&pid=ImgRaw&r=0
  • Culture is critical

    No need to wear a uniform Vera, you can become part of the civ branch. You are never too old to be helpful and useful. The same old crap is still around in B5 sure but Zathras explains the great hope for peace and that the next great story is coming. Hopefully the story improves after each great effort to change things for the better:

  • Boltzmann brains: In an infinite duration we are more likely to be a disembodied brain

    From a mathematical pov, does prime number theorem support or act against the Boltzmann brain proposal?
  • Culture is critical

    Yeah, but he had a lot to deal with, alcoholism, his best friend was killed on Mars because of his investigation, his best friends daughter (who used to call him Uncle mike,) nearly destroyed him, he got shot by his second in command that HE appointed, he got captured by the shadows and then tortured and turned into a psy-core zombie by BESTER, etc, etc. I am not surprised he became a little pessimistic. John Sheridan had some tough times as well, but he managed to remain quite optimistic.
    Have you suffered like they suffered? and what about poor G'Kar, who suffered more that all of them imo. YOU CAN DO IT VERA! Stay with us! Draw a line against the darkness! Join the army of light!
    :joke:
  • Boltzmann brains: In an infinite duration we are more likely to be a disembodied brain
    However large, a googolplex is a finite number. If a finite number of things are spread out evenly in an infinite volume, there would be infinite distance between them on average. You find this nonsense? Perhaps you assume a finite size universe, in which case the question reduces to how finite? It becomes a simple division problem between two finite numbers to get the nonzero density of BBs, but given infinite space, any finite number of objects contained in that volume would have zero density.noAxioms

    You have already agreed that all 'numbers' are finite and in my opinion, there is no infinite volume.
    YES, I am suggesting the universe is spatially finite. You can call something unbounded to indicate that it SEEMS to go on forever, and a 2d creature living in flatverse might even think its universe is totally linear, especially, if all of its scientific instrumentation supports that proposal. BUT, it will still accept the possibility that its flatverse is in fact circular but it's so vast that from it's 'light cone' it seems to be linearly unbounded.
  • Boltzmann brains: In an infinite duration we are more likely to be a disembodied brain
    Assuming that the universe is infinite, what do you think the probability is that you're a Boltzmann brain?RogueAI
    I thought I had already answered that question with the suggestion that using my own subjective probability, I think that the universe is NOT infinite.
  • Culture is critical

    As John Sheridan has been known to utter, "absafragginlootly Vera."
    Ok, I added the Vera part myself but yes, those who cannot find satisfactory purpose in their own existence, can often focus on control over others, as a way of gaining purpose for themselves.
    The Shadows and the Vorlons were supposed to guide the younger races but their ideological differences, became far more important to them than their responsibility towards the task they were given. They utterly failed as guardians. We are currently doing the same in our natural imperative as guardians of our children, our planet and all the flora and fauna on it.
    There is a vast universe to explore, but can we earn the privilege to do so?
    That's how I see things anyway for whatever that's worth.
  • Culture is critical
    Universeness you may appreciate this. The Celts and Greeks got along just fine at first. Unlike the Celts and Romans. As the Celts perceived the Romans they not only made slaves of others, but they also made slaves of themselves. It would take a lot more information gathering for me to maintain a discussion of such matters but I think it is worth knowing more.Athena

    I think the general historical view is summarised as something like:
    We don’t actually know what the Celts called themselves. The name ‘Celts’ is a modern name which is used to describe many tribes of people who lived during the Iron Age. None of the Classical texts refer to the peoples of Britain and Ireland as Celts. Therefore, as the Celts were a collection of tribes, they were more generally known by the name of those tribes or societies as opposed to a collective nation or empire.

    There are some writings based on:
    To the Greeks, they were known as Keltoi, Keltai or Galatai and to the Romans Celti, Celtae and Galli.
    and some snipits such as:
    In 279BC the Celts were known to have looted Delphi, the sacred Greek site. Strabo (Geographer) recorded a meeting between the Celts and Alexander the Great in 335BC in the Balkans. Classical writers had recorded a large-scale migration of Celts soon after 400BC, this migration took the Celts from central Europe into Northern Italy and Eastern Europe.

    But exactly who counted as a 'celt' is very much in dispute.

    I think it's more interesting to talk about the relations between the Greek city states and the Spartans and of course, the Persians. The Spartans for example, imo, were xenophobic Nazis of the worse kind and the Greeks not much better, especially under that hell spawn, Alexander the butcher.

    If we think of ourselves as evolved from an ape-like creature we can perhaps be more forgiving of human behavior and maybe a bit more in awe of our desire to do better. Packs of dogs and troops of chimpanzees do not stop to question the rightness of fighting for the recourses and territory they needed. Why do expect so much more from humans?Athena

    I expected more because we were as intelligent, during, and way before the days of ancient Greece and Egypt, as we are now. Okay, we didn't know as much as we do now, but we did not have to be the savages we had to be, in our days in the jungle under the jungle rules of survival. We did not have to bring the rules of the jungle with us, to our first major settlements such as Jericho, Uruk etc.
    We could have worked with other tribes instead of perpetual tribal war.
    Every human alive today should be angry about our bloody history and we DO INDEED need to learn that we could have been much better than that, much faster than we seem to be able to.
    Will we need another 10,000 years of tears and bloody slaughter before we can even create a human society that has a moral base, which is at least as honourable, as the society portrayed by Gene Roddenberry's imaginings?

    My brain tires and it is time for me to rest. I am listening to lectures about Hinduism right now. Their epic myth that made them more resistant to war put them on a different path than the path Rome followed. My goodness there is so much to know, and my poor brain can't keep up with my desire to know.Athena
    Just enjoy the opportunity to learn more and know more Athena, and then rest, in the comfort of knowing that your insatiable desire for more knowledge and to be able to 'understand,' is about the best and most virtuous desire it's possible for a human to demonstrate.
    As Carl Sagan said, "I don't want to believe, I want to know!"
  • Culture is critical
    I know nothing of them.Athena

    Here is a little 10 min taster that I think is quite a good summary of the human condition projected into a possible future which includes reaching a technical maximum.
  • Boltzmann brains: In an infinite duration we are more likely to be a disembodied brain

    Have you replied to the wrong poster here? You did not reply to me asking about subjective probabilities,
    you directed that towards noAxioms and sophistiCat. For what it's worth, you posted this reply to SophistiCat

    We were talking about subjective probabilities, not actual probabilities, and it's already known by me that I don't have "Down the Rabbit Hole"'s brain, so this "If the universe is infinite, then any given brain is either a RogueAI or a @Down The Rabbit Hole brain." is false. I already know that my own given brain cannot be Rabbit Hole's brain.RogueAI

    My response would be:
    I think 'subjective probability,' defined as:
    Subjective probability is a probability that reflects an individual's personal judgment or own experience about the likelihood of an event. It is not based on formal calculations, data, or theory. It may vary among different people and situations. It is sometimes used when more objective methods are not available or feasible.

    Is at best, a limited way to offer credible evidence of a proposal, and as your subjective probability is further based on a complete unknown, such as 'is the universe infinite?' then this does not add to my confidence level that Boltzmann brains are possible.
  • Culture is critical

    Would you follow the Shadows or the Vorlons in the Babylon 5 universe, or would you reject them both?
  • Culture is critical

    The trouble is that the Star Trek prime directive was NEVER applied in our early history.
    Bloody conquest was the main clarion call in the infancy of what we at some point called 'civilisation.'
    The global socioeconomic complete imbalance that exists today, is a consequence of those who in the past with tech advantages, did not adhere to a prime directive, that compelled them to leave aboriginal peoples unmolested.
  • DNA as a language.

    I remember Forrest Valkai (an online biologist who often tries to help theists deconstruct and become atheist) talking about how human cells have developed and changed over evolutionary time and via natural selection, have become symbiotic with various bacteria that proved beneficial.
    So those apostates that seem to be the enemy of religious fundamentalism may turn out to be their true saviours. Of course, those religious fundamentalist will insist that the flip of my suggestion is the truth of it.

    It is supposed that more than 8% of human DNA are archaic or inactivated /integrated viruses.

    I wonder when a new viral disease arises, was it some sort of dispute within a once cooperative holistic genome where some factions decided to hell with this and stole little boats (membrane), coated themselves in it and ejected out into the external environment on solitary pursuits.
    Benj96

    There does seem to be parallels between the outcomes of evolutionary biology via natural selection and human efforts at making a functioning and fair society within which conflicting needs can be 'negotiated' into a symbiotic state which benefits all parties involved.
    Let's hope that suggests that m.a.d is NOT the guaranteed outcome that the more pessimistic members of TPF, present it as.
  • Boltzmann brains: In an infinite duration we are more likely to be a disembodied brain
    If there were a googolplex of boltzmann brains in the universe then every coordinate in the universe would contain one and we would know what the universe was 'made of.'
    Not so, and there are probably more than that many BBs in our universe, and hopefully more regular brains than that.
    noAxioms

    I think your statement above is nonsense, based in the definition of a googolplex.

    That's like saying that the spatial extent of the universe must be finite. There is nothing precluding unbounded time, and my condolences if you cannot handle it.noAxioms
    Thank you for your unrequested, unrequired and impudent condolences.

    The geometry of the universe is currently considered flat, and unbounded, not infinite. It could seem flat to us based on its actual size. It could be an expanding sphere shape, but not expanding into anything as it IS everything. I think this train of thought is why Carl Sagan liked the idea that this universe may be like an atom, and every atom in this universe, being a universe. An unlikely but more plausible idea, than the existence of boltzmann brains imo.
    I agree with Seth.
    Seth Lloyd has stated, "They fail the Monty Python test: Stop that! That's too silly!"universeness
  • Culture is critical

    I really like most of your list of 12 proviso's for a better world but I would change 6 to "Universal FREE education, healthcare and a guaranteed welfare level that provides basic needs, from cradle to grave."
    I would change 9 to "Freedom of personal religion but no religious authority figure is acceptable."
    I would change 10 to 'Respect for the rights of private property unless it was obtained by nefarious means.'
    I would also remove 'freedom from search and seizure,' from your number 8, as you would be removing one of the main defences against nefarious individuals and organisations.
  • Culture is critical
    You might like these documentary series Lucy Worsley made about historical lies - she's very entertaining.Vera Mont

    Yeah, I watched that series when it first came out. Lucy looks quite 'Royal' when she cosplay's the role. Her strange little lisp, and the way she clasps her hands together, seems to add to her quirky delivery.
  • Culture is critical
    ones with no power or influence.Vera Mont

    The sad reality is that those who really do have the power to change the human experience for the better is 'the people' united in common cause. Power and influence can be 'home grown,' very quickly in fact, when there is a ground swell of 'revulsion' about a repressive system that has caused much human suffering for a long time. What has seemed unassailable for centuries, can be swept away within months. I like Gandhi's famous quote:
    “When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love have always won. There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time, they can seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall. Think of it--always.” ― Mahatma Gandhi