How can I account for your life? It's quite simple. We live in two different worlds. Who says there is only one? My world is one with gods, yours one without. Now who is right? Both! — Hillary

That's not the question. How can the godless be in the mainstream, happy and live fulfilled productive meaningful lives? How can any member of the godless groups make the world a little bit of a better place due to their existence and their efforts and actions whilst utterly rejecting the god posit?
These gods are utterly powerless. Atheists prove every day that you don't need them AT ALL to live a good life. Theism is supposed to be needed by humans to live properly. So how come all atheists are not having a terrible life?

...And stay skeptical.
— Carneades.org
If it's not a sinusoidal function what is it then? — Agent Smith

Well, I advocate for storing many useful apps in your mental toolbox and healthy skeptisism is a useful app in my opinion but I was not suggesting you become like Carneades and become as he is described in from wiki, as:
" perhaps the most prominent head of the Skeptical Academy in ancient Greece."

What is the 'It' you are referring to as 'sinusoidal?' Human life experience? The ebb and flow of that which humans label good and bad times? A mathematical waveform which for you, marries with the suggestions put forward by the Hindu yugas?
If you are suggesting such a regularity is the main dictate in life then I disagree as science has a great deal of evidence that although there certainly are dictated regularities, they can at any time be altered temporarily or permanently by error/anomaly/mutation etc.

I'll use everything against you! "Sustained!".

"Then Woowoo should be allowed to base life on your honor!" — Hillary

Who is using what against who?
I am appealing to your rationale.
I am trying to convince you that you will have a more fulfilling life if you combat
mental schisms such as polytheism using every erg of determined energy you can.
Base your life on woo woo and you will never defeat the likelihood of
falling in love with a pigeon or wrapping your lips around a car exhaust.
I understand the curio of the venerated lunatic genius but I think there
are far better ways to live and be.
It's quite sad in my opinion that so many good thinkers surrender to woo woo and
hope against hope that they will receive a sign from the nonexistent supernatural.
That must be quite frustrating.
How do you account for my 'happy, fulfilled' godless life?
Do you not believe that I am a happy, contented person for the vast majority of moments in time as they pass?

And still, how close the Kali Yuga is to the truth... Closer than any science and it's "objective" division of time in billions of lightyears, the emergence of Earth in a primordial solar system, the assigning of periods in evolution, and the mere blink of an eye existence of people on the cosmic scale. — Hillary

I'm not impressed at all by such predictive systems. They simply view the regularity of events over time and use such regularity to make predictions that are highly likely due to regularity.
Did the Kali Yuga posit gravity or atoms or quarks or the speed of light being constant?

Yeah, I know but it makes sense at some level, oui? Stage-wise evolution (aka life cycle in biology), aligned to the Chinese concept of yin-yang (rise & fall, crest &trough, peak & valley, to and fro, zenith & nadir). Last I checked, there's a plethora of books on the rise & fall of empires — Agent Smith

But I advise people to be very skeptical about the genuine PREDICTIVE POWER of such 'undulating' systems you describe. Sure, 'ups and down' just like water waves, projected onto the human concepts
of good times and bad times. Joseph and his dream of fat cows and thin cows. We are currently going through conflict and sin in today's world. But remember the current media system is a sensationalist system. They have little interest in reporting any good news, even though there is plenty of it.
There has never been a time in human existence when there was no conflict or 'subjective' sin.
I see systems like ying/yang etc as manna for the 'let's predict the future,' game/way to make a living.
Not much better than astrology/tarot cards/reading palms, tea leaves or chicken entrails.
I remember an expose of a particular charleton who gave audiences, messages from dead loved ones.
He actually had a whole team of researchers who would find out as much as they could about targeted audience members. They targeted based on credit card bookings. They found out names and addresses and would visit houses and look through windows with powerful lenses. Audience members were astounded at how much the performing con man knew about individual audience members.
He made a lot of money before the undercover reporter exposed him.
So if I predict that the Russian system, The Chinese system, The American system will all fall.
Then I will probably be proved correct. All systems change over time, eventually.

"World Population by Religion

About 85% of the world's people identify with a religion."

Which means: woowoo accepted — Hillary

I like the old adage, "There are lies, damned lies and then statistics!"
You can often project stats any way you like.
I don't remember taking part in this survey, do you?
85% of the people they asked and who exactly did they ask.
If you ask someone in an Islamic country if they believe in god. Do you think they would be brave enough to say no?
Even if your chosen stat is accurate, to me it just confirms the depressing fact that you can still dupe most humans some of the time.

Before AI takes blue collar jobs away from the people, we need a class of people who should not concern themselves with politics, science and philosophy. They should be trained to operate as mindless robotic cogs in the big industrial wheel. They need to be enslaved so the elite can have all the time to advance the frontier of knowledge and art. — Wittgenstein

Aldus Huxley was around 6 when Nietzsche died in 1900.
I wonder if Huxley read some of this stuff before writing Brave New World.
Huxley was a pacifist and perhaps the dystopian nature of Brave New World was his warning against such ideas. Hopefully, the 5 social classes of humans, Alphas, Betas, Gammas, Deltas, and Epsilons will never become a government-sanctioned and enforced reality.
Economically, there is no doubt these classes exist in our society today.
That has to be stopped.
There have been many other such dystopian stories before and since.

I was psychotic... Time hadn't moved 100 years in the future, and the monthly air alarm exercise didn't announce the new age! — Hillary

That's why we all need support sometimes. Medical science has not been stagnant. People can get help when they temporarily fall down.

Woofwoof calling! With beautiful dark brown eyes... great discussion brother Uni! Thank you veruy muuuuch — Hillary

Keep thinking as you walk your dog. You don't need polytheistic BS, you need to respect and offer yourself, all that you are, to science and physics as that is where you truly exist!
You still need family, friends, and experiences outside of science of course but stop your dancing to polytheistic tunes.
Don't let the SCIgodians get their BS claws into you any deeper than the penetration your theistic dalliances have already caused.

The gods helped me! Why should the woowoo insult physics? — Hillary

No, your psyche just offered you an easier way out, that's all.
Deep thinking about the physics of the Universe and its origin story has sent many good thinkers slightly mad. But most will still not surrender to BS like polytheism. You insult your own power of rational thought because the price can be a mental war inside your own head. Some scientists spend every waking moment of their lives trying to struggle with the big questions. This struggle is far more impressive that any fight invented in heaven stories. From the trials of Hercules through to the biblical Sampson, goliath etc etc. Even Jesus and his troops at armageddon is an easier fight than a single puny human brain trying to figure out the mysteries of the Universe. You should take strength in your physics quests not buckle under the enormous pressure and surrender to f****** woo woo! :rage:

Follow your dream, and you'll go far! Every man and woman is a star! — Hillary

Now you're talking! We are made of starstuff! We can do better and we will.
Nefarious b******* beware. You have stolen the cream for too long, we are beginning to see through all of your clever tricks. We now know it's not about becoming individually rich and powerful or becoming a celebrity. I don't care if I die alone, in pain, and forgotten in a sewer. I will still pursue truth and speak truth to power. I dare the nonexistent gods to face me after my death, I will rip their pathetic heaven and hell apart and start a revolution that will destroy their totalitarian omnipotent asses!

You think I surrender to them? No way! To nobody! — Hillary

YES YOU HAVE UTTERLY SURRENDERED TO THEM!
The woo woo BS has made you insult the best most productive most useful thinking you have ever done, PHYSICS! It didnt love you back enough so you ran backwards towards the poly wolly doodle BS of theism for some relief from your own pressurised rational.
Other good thinkers did the same, Tesla fell in love with a pigeon for f*** sake!
You wanted to drink from car exhausts. Put the pieces together humpty dumpty!

How can gods having a reason for creation not provide a reason? Woowoo reason is reason — Hillary

Defeatist surrender to woo woo! The easy way out because physics befuddles you even with your impressive knowledge of it. The pressure of the search has defeated you. You have laid down and screamed for mercy and the woo woo has offered itself to you as an escape from the challenge of rational human thinking. The SCIgodian leaders can now use you to help them become rich!

Ah! Now I got it! You don't like surrendering! — Hillary

No, I don't and I don't like that fact a good scientific thinker like you can. It offends my humanism!

It gives a reason why the universe is there and all life in it — Hillary

No it offers nothing but false woo woo BS that you have surrendered your rationality to when your science screams at you from your other shoulder. "Aw for f*** sake Hillary, you are a thinker not a tinkerer with woo woo."

The difference being that I don't pretend them to be scientific. It's precisely because science fails I posit them. Your play! — Hillary

Your surrender to woo woo has been the foundation of our disagreement!

Believe, brother Uni, it's your unconscious primal fear! Try to proof it's not.. — Hillary

The SCIgodians are waiting for your subscription. You will find solace there!

If the cause gives reason — Hillary

But it doesn't, its the same as obsessing about what the biggest or smallest number is, its a pointless waste of brain effort.

Very scientific, your mindless spark! — Hillary

So just like your gods then!

But it inspires your thinking without you knowing it. Subliminal! — Hillary

No, you are as far away as the first cause is with that conclusion!

Right! A mindless spark appearing from nothing isn't woowoo... It's even bigger woowoo, irrational, without reason. How can that happen? — Hillary

I'm glad you finally agree that positing a first cause is irrational and always will be.

False gods... — Hillary

So you are very familiar with them then!

It preceded the big bangs, or not? What's the nature of the spark. Is it a tunneling chance of 10exp(10exp(10exp(10exp50)))? — Hillary

Don't know, it was too long ago, in a time before time in this Universe. It has no significance AT ALL.

The common ground between these is a matter of temporally material. The cosmos and life in it are a material temporal copy of non-physical heaven and eternal life in it. So, know the universe and you know heaven. Know life and you know the gods. People have messed it up though. Because the apple of science was firmly bitten — Hillary

So, exactly what I suggested.....woo woo.

It's an unconscious primal fear... — Hillary

Yeah, so unconscious, I have never experienced it. :lol:
Your gods remain powerless fantasies who can't even touch me!

And behold, the alien beings show themselves in the shape of daddy. A scary type with white hair who blows up the capsule is introduced to warn us against the irrationality of anti-science. Dangerous! They terrorize! Why shouldn't gods be able to offer solace? But the worst of all, Sagan didn't learn basic science which he so worships! Again, like Dawkins, a scientist who is a bad physicist. Trying to compensate by being atheist! — Hillary

Sounds like you are happy to drink deeply from the poisoned well and become exactly like the SCIgodians! That intro offer will always be there, just for you!

Kali Yuga! :chin: — Agent Smith

Had to google that one!

From Wikipedia:
"The Kali Yuga, in Hinduism, is the fourth and worst of the four yugas (world ages) in a Yuga Cycle, preceded by Dvapara Yuga and followed by the next cycle's Krita (Satya) Yuga. It is believed to be the present age, which is full of conflict and sin."

Hinduism! The biggest of the polytheistic movements. More fairy story BS to me!
Of no more value than the Viking pantheon headed by Odin or the Greek pantheon headed by Zeus.
Stories for the fearties and those who need the woo woo in their lives.
Bread and butter people, manna from the nonexistent heaven for the SCIgodians to thrive upon!

The mindless spark is the 4d (7d to fit 6d particles) hyperstructure. — Hillary

It is highly unlikely the mindless spark had anything to do with this Universe, Don't forget the physics of the Penrose bounce!

There you go again! "Once upon a time in a future, far far away — Hillary

Or maybe tomorrow!

Many scientists consider it a dead end street — Hillary

True, but many others dont!

The real stuff happens in the fringes — Hillary

Yeah, but only in the opinion of those ON the fringes!

The modal scientists just repeat the string woowoo — Hillary

It could be worse, they could be trying to find common ground between Cosmology and polytheism!

Gods didn't appear from nowhere. It takes gods to let the mindless spark come into existence from nowhere. That's the power of creation. And science can't explain that! Which is with which you are struggling — Hillary

No, that's just what you need to be so.
I experience no such struggle. I love the search, I don't need to settle for a lazy woo woo fantasy.
I want the fact that humans still have questions to last as long as there are humans or transhumans in existence. Happy days ahead! A better future for all lifeforms! That's the main goal.
God is an unnecessary nonexistent pile of quicksand!
If you still need it then the SCIgodians await you!

Yeah, Jody Foster, the typical female atheist! The film has made a critical mistake.. — Hillary

To err is human, to forgive is ........... also human!

You're on the right track! Keep going — Agent Smith

:up: Don't lose heart, keep faith in the human race!!!

Why the ToE of strings is more likely? If you understand it, it offers no clue to dark energy. — Hillary

More time is required to complete!

String theory is a fantasy even worse than gods. — Hillary

Says you, from the distant fringes of the scientific community.

Not to speak of a mindless spark. Where the hell did a mindless spark came from? — Hillary

From nowhere! Same as your fictitious god(s)

Horror films that dramatise the supernatural have little impact on me. I always imagine the cameraman and the makeup artist. 'We need more red splurges on his face' or 'perhaps if we got some butcher meat and stuck it to his face, he would look scarier,' :rofl:
In the second clip, yeah, shit happens! The human race needs to keep struggling for survival. Evolution through natural selection has not stopped.

I am reminded of a scene from Carl Sagan's film Contact. I searched for it on youtube but to no avail.
Ellie as a child, can't get to the heart pills in time to save her father. The usual moronic local priest speaks to her at the funeral of her father and he tries to comfort her by suggesting that she pray to god and receive its solace. She utters the brilliant words 'should have kept some pills in the downstairs kitchen.'
Ain't it the truth! Well done Carl! Good writing!

:scream:

Give me one then! — Hillary

I already have, many times. A ToE based on String theory/Mtheory and the first cause was a mindless, meaningless spark that no longer has any existence. This is much more likely for me than your 6D manifold and god(s).

I didn't get it! — Agent Smith

It speaks to the situation that many people face. If the world around you goes mad. Can you maintain your own sanity and still fight for what you believe is a better future for all or do you just take the more comfortable route and join the rest of the mad b*******!
rampant theism/autocracies/aristocracies/plutocracies/ cults of celebrity/cults of personality/ nefarious individuals can be very very hard to combat. They can f*** you up and those you love. They can make you suffer in ways we can hardly imagine. Is it not much easier to drink their poison, join them and gain from those they abuse. Or will you fight????

The point is, I can answer that question. And the gods even helped me answering it! Pascal wagered, I am sure — Hillary

Everyone can provide an answer if they choose to. Even the animals can grunt or squeak or quack an answer. That doesn't give such answers any inherent value. Proof boy proof or you are just screaming words into a void where sound doesn't travel. Your answer is more than likely, nowhere near the correct answer. Just like the answers offered by all pernicious theism, including the SCIgodians.

But if the gods posit is posited after the scientific attempt has proven useless, inadequate, meaningless, without reason, and improvable just the same, the posit is justified. — Hillary

A defeatist viewpoint! We cant answer the big questions yet after much effort so let's just surrender to the woo woo god posit. No way! Pascals Wager is surrender at best and absolute cowardice at worse.

That way, we can continue pretending that our particular brand of ‘civilised humanity’ is the only way to be, and that the world and people are ordered and predictable. — Possibility

But our particular brand of what is considered 'civilised behaviour,' changes from village to village all the way to nation to nation. We don't have the same guidelines of civility as the ancient Sumerians or the more recent Victorians. I am not ready to advocate for men and women to masturbate, if they choose to, in public, on the buses and trains, on their way to the office, are you?

So it was actually Alexander being mad? — Hillary

Alexander the b****** was not mad but he was an evil butcher. He went mad in the end, I think, as most 'conquerers' do.

I don't think Diogenes needed mental health care actually! And he certainly would have refused. — Hillary

Most people in the madhouse are very definite about just how sane they are.
Just like the alcoholic that 'can handle it,' and knows what they are doing.
I remember a wee Spanish fella who said to me.
'If crazies and alkies and junkies etc no want no help then we no give them no help!
They all die quicker, problem solved!'

Suffice to say, I disagreed with him. :smile:

↪universeness :grin: — Agent Smith

:lol: All who offend thee may perish! Don't f*** with the replicants, that's what I say!

If you neglect both sides of your body à la Diogenes, your brain is perfectly fine! You're in fact considered a sage. — Agent Smith

What do you think of the very old story about the King who was much loved by his subjects?
An enemy poisoned the main water well the subjects drank from and they all went mad after they drank the water.
The people now saw their King in a new light. They hated him, overthrew him, and they kicked him out of the city.
In the dead of night, the deposed King reached the poisoned water well and drank deeply.
The next day, the people celebrated the return of their beloved King.
Misery loves company eh!

Terrence Deacon has coined a new term for non-existence. He uses "absence" & "absential" to refer to a state that has not-yet been realized or actualized. It is especially apt for describing human intentions. His definition of causal non-existence does not specifically refer to a god, but you can see the resemblance in a deity who exists in some sense, but is not physically there or anywhere. — Gnomon

Do you therefore agree, that all human thought, projects conceptualisations and interpretations upon what we individually experience since birth? We then rely on others to support/confirm/deny/correct our personal concepts and interpretations.
Intelligent humans will employ our best tool, the scientific method, to try to prove that any popular concept or interpretation is correct or wrong based on empirical evidence and, they will assess, how strong the evidence is.
If empirical evidence cannot be found in support of a concept, then it is at worse, completely rejected, or at best, it is held to the sides, until more knowledge is discovered.

Any causal reference to the god posit as an original source for the Universe has so far, had no evidential support AT ALL except ancient and modern hearsay and the wishful thinking of humans who are simply terrified because they don't know why they are and they fear oblivion after death because they think they may be in some way, still aware of time passing.
The fact that they had no existence for the majority of the past 13.8 billion years does not comfort them.
They need god as their savior because the idea of it not existing simply terrifies them.
Combatting such raw irrational terror is so difficult that I think some theism will always exist amongst humans. I am not so worried about that. I just want to vastly dilute theistic power within human society so that inducing individual humans to commit acts of war or violence or terror on others due to any theistic doctrine becomes as impossible to achieve as possible.