This is a comment from Mikie to Agree-to-Disagree from a week ago:

Oh hahahahaha! A line from 40 years ago that’s been quoted about a billion times before! What wit. What humor.

Just also worth pointing out how Incredibly unfunny this guy is. (Besides when he’s pretending that he’s not thought of as a complete baffoon — that’s actually hilarious.) — Mikie

This is a discussion site, and I want to discuss. But I don't want to discuss garbage. — unenlightened

Then your point is that they should ban Agree-to-Disagree? I think he's the only person who posts on that that thread with any regularity (other than yourself). His posts aren't really bad enough for banning. They'll probably ban me before they do him.

Why not make a new thread devoted to climate change links, like a reddit style listing. Leave the climate change thread for general discussion, including disagreement about details. I think that would be less confusing.

Some languages have two verbs that mean "to be.". One is for matters of identity, and the other is for transient states. That probably affects the way those speakers think. Spanish is like that.

That sounds like a large topic of its own. If you would open a new topic with it, I would follow it through. — Corvus

That's ok. I've thought a lot about time and identity. Just wondering what your thoughts were. :up:

What is the nature of identity?

So they're the same, but they're not the same?

They are different Banno in time, not in identity. — Corvus

So they aren't actually different.

What do you think? Give us some examples for such existences please. Thanks. — Corvus

Well, didn't you say the Banno from the past is different from the Banno in the present? So they couldn't be in the same room at the same time, right? They have to be separate?

Can anything from the past coexist with the stuff in the present?

But it's great days for Russia and China as Trump is rapidly eroding the US position. — ssu

:up:

Vicepresident Vance gave a speech, — ssu

Some expected him to announce a massive withdrawal of troops from Europe. That didn't happen. Yet.

He is almost a Hollywood caricature, a Bond movie villain — Wayfarer

True.

Lopsided, yes. "America First"

The US domestic market and/or the US export market? — kazan

The US domestic market.

I think the goal is to shut the rest of the world out of the US market.

What is the point of being a killjoy? — javi2541997

Keepin' it real, man.

I took your invitation to indulge in irrelevant shit throwing. — fdrake

You're misunderstanding me. I was being completely honest. I wanted you to think about it going forward.

and the majority of posts you've made would've gotten you banned if we kept the editorial standards from the old site. Your move! — fdrake

What does that have to do with anything?

I see. Well I suppose you could make a Feedback thread. — fdrake

Very funny.

This was my goodbye message to him. Don't defend abusive people.

Dude. She was abusive to everybody every single day.

The majority of Mikie's posts that you were talking about, I believe, were directed toward people who he believed - reasonably - were supporting genocide, the thorough subversion of democracy, and the annihilation of the human race. It is unreasonable to expect anyone to be civil about such things. — fdrake

And you really believe this is what was happening?

Oh? Who? — fdrake

Mikie was just one long stream of verbal abuse. There wasn't even any philosophy in it. Just abuse. You defended her every step of the way. Why did you do that?

You defended people who were abusive. Maybe don't do that in real life.

It occurs to me that democracy probably wouldn't mean much to a sociopath.

Aah yes, manufactured talking points. Projection is one of the biases I was speaking of. — NOS4A2

Gaslighter. :lol:

Like I said, the usual suspects — NOS4A2

I think you're the usual suspect in this case. You're repeating manufactured talking points like a good little soldier. :grin:

For instance when Biden defied the Supreme Court for his illegal student loan forgiveness — NOS4A2

Biden didn't defy the Supreme Court.

So why do people freak out like they're losing something? Why the lamentations in this thread?

By buy-in and contribute to the laws, do you mean he doesn’t violate them? Personally, the only reason I don’t violate any laws is because I do not want the authorities to have a reason to punish me. So I don’t drive through red lights. Other than that morality is the only thing that guides my behavior. — NOS4A2

So it doesn't make any difference to you if you live in a democracy or a dictatorship. It's the same thing either way.

Rousseau takes great pains to distinguish between the particular and general will, but I think he failed. There is no general will, and thus no Sovereign. In practice the “general will” always turns out to be the will of some individual or faction or other (a particular will), namely, the rule of those who claim to know and represent the “general will”. The rule of this group or any other can never be the rule of the people. A republic or any other state is necessarily an oligarchy, and no one living in one can ever free. — NOS4A2

But most people don't really want to be out in the woods trapping rabbits. They want to live more sophisticated lives of the kind that can only be found in society. So isn't the idea that you buy-in to the laws with some assurance that you're contributing to them, if not 100%? No?

To hell with that. You have just undermined the authority that could promulgate such an assurance. — Paine

Oh well. I tried.

The mention of a mandate that overruled the preferences of a minority. — Paine

I think that's what happens when there's an election. The majority overrules the minority.

Honestly, this is a volatile issue. It's a little more than some people can handle, I'm starting to realize. The USA is changing in big ways, but I don't think you'll really need to worry too much. Everything will be ok.

I am guessing from this screed that you have little interest in the topic of individual liberty that occupied your forebears. — Paine

How do you come to that conclusion?

Then I don't see the importance of insisting upon the essay being germane. — Paine

Oh. I think Musk is part of an expanding group with overlapping interests. There's Trump, who floated the idea of getting rid of term limits, and overtly sought to overturn an election. There's Vance, who has sympathy for Dark Enlightenment ideas. There's Vought, who the Project 2025 guy. And so on.

The general vibe is some kind of authoritarian libertarianism. What I'm seeing is that Musk is going straight for control of the Treasury, which would allow him wide control over how the government can respond to an attack from the Executive. Why is Musk in such a hurry? I mean, what is his vision for the US government in 4 years? I'm guessing an overhaul.

But what underpins it all is that Trump won comfortably. They have a mandate. I just happened to pick Dark Enlightenment to start with because this is a philosophy forum, and it's philosophy.

It does. But how does that element relate to the description of power that Land lays out? — Paine

I don't think it's related, sorry.

I have my own experiences with divergence and all these different polities being discussed here directly involve my life as I understand it happening. That goes for my family and all the people I love and have loved.

That love extends to people who believe stuff I do not and enemies who wish me harm. That is what Rousseau meant by compassion. I will hurt you if I have to. But no fist pumps and triumphant trumpets. — Paine

And so you can't be neutral. I understand. Does it hurt if someone seems to be flippant about it?

We're the same in that we're both coming from love.

one moment, you stand outside of Land's thesis, at another you argue from it. Pick a lane — Paine

I'm in an orbiting satellite collecting data on the 21st Century. What is my lane?

I do have a tendency to start talking as the person whose view I'm describing.

Offer a little consideration for the neurodivergent pleeeeeeeeeese.

He said they had a 'natural' morality, as depicted in the quote given here — Paine

What would be cool is if everyone could keep an eye out for the things a Marxist would reject in the Enlightenment views we discuss.

Remember, Land was influenced by Marx when he was younger.