frank

Cool. That's why I was asking about the other sources for this claim. Do you have them? — Isaac

I don't think there are any yet. They're looking since the Russians already threatened to use chem weapons and they have a history of using them.

Confirmation from multiple sources is usually given weight.

Banno seems to want to limit "philosophy" to "what interests Banno", and that's a very selfish attitude, especially since Banno's interests are very shallow. — Metaphysician Undercover

:up:

There are good philosophical and social reasons to remove certain threads. — Banno

You could just notify a mod if you have a concern. You post this in order to be a pompous ass. What's worse is you're crap at philosophy as well.

The way things are going and how the US and Europe are preparing for the next round of bipolar struggle everything might be moot. But Kudos for looking even further, I don't plan beyond my kids' expected death, somewhere around 2100. — Benkei

I've been interested in futurology for a while. In a way it's related to trying to understand history. :nerd:

How many is a few? At a minimum 20 years then. Much too late. Climate action needs to happen today and considering the rich west is not willing to give up its way of life, they will continue to squabble about how to account for carbondioxide and make sure there are enough loopholes that on paper they reach their target but in reality don't do anything. — Benkei

I agree it's too late to aim for zero anthropogenic global warming. I mentioned before that a significant chunk of accessible hydrocarbons have yet to be burned, and per David Archer, a long range climate modeler, it's what we do with those reserves that decides how bad it will be over the course of the next 10,000 years.

My focus is more on how that will play out. The course of the next few centuries is already set.

If wishes were horses, beggars would ride.

It ain't going to happen. Not soon enough , if ever, and it doesn't address the huge environmental problems at all. I'm unsurprised, but disappointed that the same nonsense is being spouted here as we have been hearing for 40 years or so.

https://www.carbonbrief.org/climate-change-not-the-main-driver-of-madagascar-food-crisis-scientists-find But it is an additional, back-seat driver. Deforestation, overfishing, soil depletion, uncontrolled mining and logging, are all also driving in the same direction, and as people get more desperate, the over-exploitation of whatever resources remain gets worse. — unenlightened

That's an odd attitude. The Chinese are getting there. .

The rest of the world will catch up. Have a little faith, Peter.

We already have millions of climate refugees, and we are already set to lose a great many low-lying cities and a large portion of our arable land. This much is already unavoidable, and dreams of cheap energy are what brought us to this point. — unenlightened

If we could limit the change to that, it would be a win for humanity. The high projection for change is about 8 degrees.

One way to avoid that would be fusion.

They only look out about a century, right?
— frank

Yeah, are you worried about next century? — Marchesk

No, but a happy outlook for next century is dubious since there's a delay between CO2 emission and the associated effect.

The tech miracle would be commercial fusion. With cheap, abundant energy you can do a lot. Such as large-scale carbon capture and desalinization. — Marchesk

:up:

the latest IPCC report — Marchesk

They only look out about a century, right?

(1), I view capitalism as the real religion, and a particular variant of it seems to be dominating the minds of the plutocracy -- whether or not this can change, I don't know. — Xtrix

It's changing in Russia right now. They're transitioning to a command economy. They will continue to export coal and gas because they're dependent on the proceeds.

most of the warming is locked in — Xtrix

Not yet. There's still a huge amount of coal left. It would take America about 200 years to burn all its own coal. That's what we need the Covenant for.

To really halt excess CO2 production instead of just slowing it down would require some sort of global covenant: a new global religion, basically.

It could happen, but until then I think you're right that you can help by having faith in mankind. With that faith you influence the world around you in all sorts of small ways. You send out a certain message along the webs of communication extending around the globe.

That's the effect of faith: to "be the change you wish to see in the world".

How can we celebrate the first black woman on the Supreme Court if mo one knows what a "woman" is? — Harry Hindu

It's time for the birds and the bees, Harry.

First black woman on the SCOTUS! Yay!

Agreed. Which makes him continuous with every other American president in history. — StreetlightX

Not really.

What, it's funny. They made such a big deal of suspending Russia. — StreetlightX

I know. Trump didn't care about human rights. That's why it's good to have actual laws.

We have schizophrenia.

The question which for me is central to the thread is now why science does not count as a religion, given these anchors. — Banno

Separating science from religion is a recent development. In Europe, Christianity disintegrated so that "religion" came to reference the conflict between different sects.

The idea of a secular government with non-divine legitimacy appeared and with that, the idea of religion is now substantially contrasted.

So you're dealing with a concept of religion that's familiar to you, and no doubt associated with various memories and emotions of your own. Remember that an analysis of that won't transfer to the larger concept of religion.

The sour snake in the belly
coughs up the bloody purpose:

To build walls of mud around the meaninglessness
and bite and bite

Because the pain won't go away
And it means nothing.

Isn't Zelensky the reason this is still going on?

If he would have left the country, Ukraine would be part of Russia now, right?

:up:

Just looked at your avatar, now that is crazy. — Punshhh

Yes. Gotta keep that under wraps and pass for normal.

Every solider who comes home in a coffin wrapped in a flag from some kind of overseas adventure is someone's else cause of rightful celebration. One country in particular likes those decorated boxes. — StreetlightX

Like I said, your psyche is a wasteland.

If you're going to invade another country, expect to die. You signed up for it, literally. — StreetlightX

There just kids. If they surrender, you shouldn't kill them.

:up: You're still crazy though.

I have zero moral judgement about Ukrainians murdering, in whatever way they see fit, Russian aggressors. — StreetlightX

That's because you're fucking crazy.

Raising minimum wage to 19 dollars might do the trick and split the GOP for good. That way not just Democrats benefit but actual US citizens. — Benkei

There's a labor shortage right now, so that's happened organically.

Although inflation is high too, so it's hard day to day to get a handle on what's happening.

Ah, the tone police. — Benkei

It's more the sound of self-loathing, though. Maybe not you so much, but others.

The extreme right is the anti-status-quo bloc now. Unfortunately, they're as insane as they can possibly be about it.

They're splitting the GOP., and I guess they'll try to make a third party at some point.

That's good news for Democrats.

The rouble is back to what it was before the invasion. — NOS4A2

It's artificial though.

Knowingly killed more people than any other single entity in the time between them knowing cigarettes caused lung cancer and them telling anyone. Apparently — Isaac

I think COPD is a bigger killer than lung cancer isn't it?

Estimates for native americans killed through deliberate governmental action range from 95 million to 114 million in Canada and the US. Whether that was the US government or proxy governments for colonial powers is a bit academic. It does beat Mao although admittedly over a 500 year time period. — Benkei

It's not academic that the USA and Canada didn't exist 500 years ago, when measles was the biggest killer of Native Americans.

Freeloaders take advantage of the cooperative nature of others for personal gain. That doesn't seem selfish to you? — praxis

You mean the elite?

The Aztecs were original in a particular brand of religious sacrifice but a bunch of pussies compared to settler colonialism and all the crap that came with that — Benkei

They were still mass murderers. Sure, they don't have the scale of the two countries that top the list of mass murderers: USSR and China, but give them a break. They were in the middle of nowhere.

I'm just praying karma isn't a thing or we're both fucked. — Benkei

Whatchoo mean "we" kemosabe?

the sense they were both expressions of empire and the countries propping them up responsible for millions of death across the world. Sure. Pick your favourite mass murderer. — Benkei

The Hittites were pretty cool. Egypt was in a class by itself. Obviously.

Aztecs, though. Talk about mayhem. :grimace:

If Frank is too skittish to express his objections maybe some else knows what he’s talking about? — praxis

I don't have any objections. I didn't really get why we were talking about freeloading.

However, I feel as though yout DNA might be dispersed a little better if you were nicer to me.

Basically it's simply that, according to our particular biology, cooperation generally propagates more of our genes than freeloading. — praxis

Oh. OK.

Right, so it's not

the strategy our species has developed for gene propagation. — praxis

wish there was a clearer picture of what the sanctions are actually doing. Of course, gradually tightened sanctions are not going to have an over-night effect, but I hear mixed messages on their effectiveness. — Bitter Crank

If the sanctions were supposed to undermine Putin's popularity, they don't seem to have done that. If anything, the Russian elite is more closely tied to Putin than before.

Russia did have a market economy in which westerners participated. Apparently that's gone. They will now have a command economy.

Here.

The reason is simply that we are biologically a social species and therefore cooperation is vital to our survival, or rather the strategy our species has developed for gene propagation. — praxis

It doesn't look like selfishness has been deselected.